Posted by Jim Henderson on: 02.17.2006 /
When it comes to conversion by preaching Hemant has this to offer
“I’m always listening for something I can take back with me (whether in person or on TV). If it’s an anecdote, wonderful. If it’s a lesson I should learn, fine. If it’s only someone spouting Bible verses, it’s in one ear, out the other. Unless it’s in a context I can enjoy listening to, the scripture part of it will do very little for me”
Question: If (you think) preaching scripture is critical to conversion and people like Hemant don’t care about it - what do you suggest you do to “get thru to him”
Comment by: earlychurchfathers
1The story of Jesus is good, in regular terms. This is what Catholics call Tradition, as in the oral tradition. It is what bridged the gap between when the NT events occured and when it was written down.
Hearing how a dirt poor rabbi two thousand years ago turned the world upside down by giving himself up to save his friends from Roman slaughter is a pretty entertaining story, if nothing else.
Comment by: brett
2There’s a whole heap of difference between ’spouting Bible verses’ and clearly explaining the Word of God. There is no dichotomy in being anecdotal and in faithfully unpacking the historically particular message of the Scriptures to make them relevant for a contemporary audience.
Comment by: Robin Z
3I’m an atheist, myself, so this isn’t exactly what’s being requested, but…
I have not read the whole Bible. I have read bits of it, like the first two chapters of Genesis, and some of the story of Job, but never the whole thing. When I did read a piece of the Bible, though, I never enjoyed it.
On the other hand, when I read retellings of Bible stories, like the sermon in Moby Dick, I often enjoy them immensely.
I’m pretty sure that the difference lies in the extra details that the retellings have. The suggestions of what the characters might be thinking. The descriptions of the environment. Without the superfluous stuff, you lose me.
Comment by: Jessica
4Hiding the Scripture, pretending that it’s not there would almost be like false advertising- the Christian faith is more than anecdotes and our teachings and times of worship should reflect the importance of the Scriptures in our beliefs. However, I think Hemant is right, the Bible will be boring for him and why not? To him it’s nothing more than a collection of ancient myths and legends with archaic views on living. Robin makes an excellent point though about how retellings of Bible stories can be very engaging. The narrative nature and contextualization of retellings invites us all to connect with Scripture even if we think it’s simply a myth- at least it’s a myth with an enjoyable, entertaining lesson that can fit my life.
I would have to ask what we believe to be the point of Scripture in our worship gatherings. After that, looking at how we share Scripture becomes open for interpretation. Perhaps the “spouting” style should give way to a more narrative expression using a variety of arts to do so. Personally, I think the church needs some of both.
Comment by: Winn
5It always amazes me the emphasis we place on Scripture. A friend of mine once said that the church in the twentieth century had a new Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Scripture. While he said it in jest, there was a grain of truth in his claim.
So Jim, to the first part of your question: “If preaching scripture is critical to conversion….” If you mean by that what the present “evangelistic” culture in the church means, i.e., quote a few unattached Bible verses, a deadly disease I call versitis, to make a point, which is often pointless, that calls for a person to “pray a prayer so they can get the appropriate ‘barcode on their butt’ so they can get “scanned into heaven” when they die,” then, no, I don’t think that “preaching scripture” in that way has much value. Yes, it has worked on occasion, not because it is a correct thing to do, but, in my opinion, because God uses what he can when he wants to. Just because it worked doesn’t mean he condones it as a proper way of proclamation. Like Hemant, I don’t care about this kind of “so-called preaching.” It is too much like a stereotyped sales speech in which “closing the deal” and “notching” one’s spiritual gun is the ultimate goal.
If “preaching scripture” means telling the story of God in its story form, then I would say, “yes.” But, this kind of “proclamation” is not often found in the Sunday morning pulpit. Telling a story and letting it hover with the listener is certainly different from arguing a point, again, which is often pointless, which tries to argue folks into submission. Story, it seems to me, is the antidote to a “scripture screechin’, verse quotin’ fragmented” presentation.
Here is a shameless plug: I am writing about this here. (Jim, you can edit the “plug” if it breaks any comment etiquette you may have on this blog.)
Comment by: Ron R.
6If you’re a Christian, and attempting to witness, I think you have to tailor your message to your audience. I’m an atheist, and I’ll politely entertain a Christian witnessing to me if they’re respectful about it and not intrusive. For example, I have read the bible thoroughly, studied it, critiqued it, and studied biblical history. Since I view the bible as an ancient manuscript that has both good and bad advice but far from infallible, biblical support means very little to me. So my only 2 cents, make your message relevant on a personal level, and try not to be offended if you are rebutted.
Comment by: ServeHim
7Citing Scripture references to Hemant is as useless to him as citing the Qur’an to me. Hemant, because he isn’t a Christian holds zero value to the Bible and discredits the Christian who will try to debate using Scripture. What needs to happen between Christians and Atheist’s is: there needs to be a pure desire on behalf of the Christian to truly understand how the Atheist thinks. What motivates him, what have been his experiences. Christians also need to avoid the “cookie cutter” responses that have been engrained in so many of them. Do we want Atheist’s to become Christians? Sure, but we can’t think that we have the power to change their hearts and minds. The best avenue of approach is discussion with respect. Dig through evidence, dig through reliability of the Bible, discuss logic and reason. Dig through things that the Athiest may or may not hold any value to. You can discuss it and hope they see things differently, but they may not. All Christians can do is love them just like we love anybody else and discuss things rationally and civilly with respect to the way they think and why they think the things they do.
Ultimately, what it comes down to is that Christians are no better than Atheist’s, we have just chosen Jesus as our Savior. Until the Atheist believes in God, we can’t push Scripture as a means of trying to “win them over.”
Comment by: skikid
8I was raised athiest and I had tons of people (all well intentioned) I am sure try and get me to see the light so to speak. I guess I am not as nice as Ron… I tend to just tell them that I am not interested. I only really felt like I could explore faith when I felt fully accepted for who I was, even if I was athiest. I think that the best way to do that is to listen, I see a lot of that going on here so I think you might be on the right track.
Comment by: Mark
9If you want atheists to agree to biblical ideas then I can share with you how I do. If a Christian presents the bible as history or science we won’t agree. If they use it as an allegory. When god drowned the whole earth except Noah what I see as middle ground is religion needed to be re-evaluated and it’s a figurative way of humans seeing the whole planet get a makeover and new sense of religion, not the earth was full of water because that’s unscientific and will get nowhere with an atheist or scientist.
Comment by: r10b
10Question: If (you think) preaching scripture is critical to conversion and people like Hemant don’t care about it - what do you suggest you do to “get thru to him”
As one who thinks scripture is at some point critical, if Hemant doesn’t care then I would not quote scripture to Hement. To those who do care about scripture and are repeatedly jabbing it at Hemant I would refer them to Matthew 7:6. (Hopefully Hemant really doesn’t care and takes no offense.)
Maybe an example of holy living would “get through” to Hemant? Quoting scripture to Hemant is much easier! Holy living requires constantly quoting scripture to oneself, transforming oneself into the likeness of Christ, thereby creating the opportunity for the transformation of Hemant. But, again, quoting scripture is much easier. Any hypocrite can do it!
Comment by: Mark
11r10b
Other than praying/worshipping god what do you mean by holy living? I honor my parents, love and adore my wife and kid, pay taxes, drive responsible, provide for my family and treat family and strangers with the same respect they show me. My question stems from the viewpoint that atheists live moral lives.
Comment by: Paul
12for my two pennies, what would get through to Hemant, i think my follow up question would be what examples of spouting verses has he encountered? how did they make him feel? Why did he feel disconnected/turned off? Was it presentation? tone? the verses themselves? the lack of context? or subtext? or even proof texting, just quoting a verse to back up a point of view?
Is it something about Hemant feeling preached at, or caught in a bible barrage rather than being engaged in conversation?
Another question i guess is what does Hemant think of the bible?
Comment by: BeHim
13I would ask how he Hermant knows things? By what measure does he or any of us truly know anything?
What is the makeup of our worldview and how can we test our assumptions to be true. If a person is NOT willing (Believer or unbeliever) to test their own beliefs through dialogue and questions then they are unwilling to learn.
I’ve found most atheists to be yearning to sit down and question things BUT most Christian leaders are not equipped to provide any type of logical answer so they simply quote Bible verses… which isn’t a bad thing but a tape recorder can be equipped to simple quote Bible verses.
Comment by: r10b
14Mark,
…what do you mean by holy living?…My question stems from the viewpoint that atheists live moral lives.
Holiness is not a synonym for what is commonly called morality. The Christian idea of holiness involves (among other things) being set apart for God and dedicated to God above all. So for a Christian, living a holy life is more than holding to one’s own standards; it means seeking to understand and hold to God’s standards. I can’t tell you exactly what holy living would look like from the outside because it would be different for each person (though they all seek to adhere to one external standard). Inside, the desire to honor God in every aspect of one’s life would drive that person to the Scriptures where, with the aid the Holy Spirit, she could apply that teaching to her life causing a process of transformation into the likeness of Christ. In as much as we are like Christ we will draw certain people to Him - and evoke virulent hostility from others, like Christ himself did.
Comment by: seeker
151. What’s the difference between teaching and preaching? One is telling, the other is yelling.
This old joke is actually funny because it reveals what poor preaching is - just yelling the scriptures, as if one’s volume is equal to one’s authority, or the authority of the scriptures. True teaching is instructional, while true preaching is motivational - it uses the scriptures to motivate us to action!
2. Christianity is a revealed religion, not just a religion of general truths.
All enduring religions contain empirical, or general truths - things that can be learned by observation and experimentation - these truths are also sometimes called wisdom, like the truths in the book of Proverbs.
But what makes religions different is what they say about truths that can not be seen, but must be revealed, like what happens after we die, what is God like, and some of the questions of meaning. Here, Christianity must be preached from the scriptures. As Paul said, I did not recieve this from man, but from God. Revealed truth must to some extent be held out as true without data to back it up, because in the end, God has to open people’s eyes, and their inner truth-meter has to bear witness that it is true.
3. You often must start from where people are.
As Paul did no Mars Hill, we often need to start at the truth they already acknowledge, and argue back to Christ.
Comment by: Mark
16r10b,
You get no hostility from me but I live a moral life and not a holy one because nothing is holy to me:) Nothing is sacred, nothing is godly if you get my drift. Those are words I don’t use in my vocabulary you could say as they are religious concepts.