Posted by Jim Henderson on: 02.20.2006 /
Editorial Note: This may not have been the writers intention but when I read posts like this I can’t help but hear the following warnings. What say you…
Try to go to church when the best preachers are speaking
In my experience, guest/non-regular preachers are often much worse speakers than the regular preachers at churches, in ability to hold the listeners’ interest, and in content and organization of material preached. On the whole they have much less practice than the regular preachers and perhaps they also lack some talents which helped the regular preachers become regular.
Please undertand the point before trying to listen
Also in my experience, sermons have different goals; some focus on “how you can be different based on this Bible passage” and others focus on “let’s make sure we understand this passage really well”. I would think the former more likely to have something of interest for you than the latter. Especially since the latter means “let’s understand this really well given our belief system” and at this point in time you don’t accept the belief system. Whereas the former may be based on a passage which you happen to agree with anyway, at least in part or in the way the preacher is applying it, so you may be open to applying it in your life.
Learn the fine Print before you attend church
All the Christian churches I know of practice communion in some form; they do it because of the Bible passages where Jesus is sharing bread and wine with his apostles the night before he was crucified, where he says “Do this in remembrance of me”. They do it in remembrance of him. PCC and Willow Creek, whose beliefs are very similar, consider communion important because Jesus said to do it, and serious because of a passage saying people who take it unworthily might even die as a judgement from God. This latter passage is why at some churches like PCC they will say “this is only for believers” – they don’t want you to ‘bring judgment upon yourself’. In addition to the above beliefs, Catholics also believe the bread and wine actually turns into Jesus’ bread and body; that taking it in makes a Christian more holy and is an essential part of becoming more acceptable to God. Churches like PCC and Willow Creek tend to have communion once a month. Catholics have it every week since it’s essential.
What Glorifying God Means (to insiders)
The goal of a Christian is to be glorifying God in an ongoing way. When a Christian is sinning, he/she is not glorifying God at that moment. That’s why Christians encourage each other to glorify God in an ongoing sense and that’s why they make an ongoing effort to make choices they believe will glorify him right now.
Churches like PCC often encourage people to take notes during the sermons, to help them remember what was said.
Go to church on the right day
When Christians say that a message is “watered-down”, they do tend to mean that it is not explicitly enough related to a passage/passages of the Bible, in their opinion. They may also mean that it presents what the Bible says but in an unbalanced way, highlighting some parts and avoiding others. I know Willow Creek has been criticized for preaching “watered-down” messages; this criticism is particularly applied to their weekend services which are more aimed at non-Christians than Christians. But you went to a weekday evening service; those are for Christians and so they have more singing of worship songs and probably a message more aimed at Christians.
Christians Church Shop - Don’t be Surprised
Christians often try various churches to find the one they like best. Since PCC and Willow Creek have similar beliefs – and since Willow Creek is big and well-known to Christians in the Chicago area – it’s not surprising to me that you’d find people at PCC who’ve also been to Willow Creek.
Keep Going :-) (why does this sound weird to me? is it just me?)
I’ve really enjoyed reading all your comments about churches so far - keep up the good work!
Comment by: Ir
1Jim, I’m disappointed you interpreted my comments as a series of warnings. I didn’t intend them that way at all. I read Hemant’s write-up yesterday and thought “maybe I can share some things from my own experience/knowledge that might help him understand the ‘whys’ behind some of what he saw and heard”. I was trying to explain, not to warn. I like people to have information that might be interesting or relevant and my intent was to try to provide some. And I know I’m not an expert; in fact maybe many other people can explain similar things better and more accurately than I can.
Perhaps I wrote too much; perhaps I presumed too much in thinking that Hemant might be interested in what I wrote. Perhaps my ‘tone’ came across otherwise than I intended. If I used your comments space inappropriately I’m sorry. Anyway, please believe that if I wanted to warn him I would have written explicit warnings. In fact, I have nothing to warn him about. I hope Hemant is enjoying visiting various churches as much as I am enjoying reading his write-ups about them.
Comment by: Mark
2Ir,
I wouldn’t be too worried. Atheists aren’t going to believe based on the above advice. I know you meant well so let’s just look at these as possible ideas of conversation:) I’m sure your intent was good.
Comment by: Ir
3Thanks Mark.
Comment by: skikid
4When I read the comment it didnt strike me as warnings… that is it didnt set off the convert-o-meter (being raised athiest it is built in :)). But I can totally realate to a lot of the questions Hemant posed… in my own experience going to church for the first time can be VERY intimidating, I know that I was really scared (I know I have said this before but I am really impressed with Hemant). A lot of it was because I didnt know what to expect, and at that point I didnt know quite what I believed (just that I was pretty sure atheism wasnt working for me). I think that the author was probably just trying to shead some light on the subject.
I dont think that this is what the author intended but after reading the passage I felt like (if it had been directed at me) there is a us and them division. That is between Christians and everyone else and it is ‘their’ responsibility to learn about the church and find a way to fit in. I felt a little bit like it put the responsibility to get educated about the church on people who know very little about it and in my own experience just want not to mess up )in church.
I think that the author was really well intentioned though.
Comment by: Ir
5skikid, I didn’t mean to imply that people who don’t know much about church should educate themselves more. I only meant to say “here is some information if you’re interested”. As for messing up, the churches I’ve been to have not expected that visitors will be familiar with what goes on there.
But even so, it can be rather intimidating, as you say. A few years ago I took a class at a Unitarian church. I’m not a Unitarian and the feeling of being an ‘outsider’ there was much more intimidating than I had anticipated. (It was not because they did anything intimidating to me - they were all very friendly to me) It helped me realize how intimidating it might be for someone else to visit a place where I have friends and am comfortable.
Comment by: Winn
6Ir
Just as Hemant shared what he heard the “preacher” say at PCC and the “preacher” responded by thanking Hemant for his input, maybe Jim read your post and shared what he “heard” you say and instead of a “thank you” and some reflection on your part, you simply defended yourself. What’s up with that? “Listening” is a “fine art” that should be developed by followers of Jesus.
Comment by: Ir
7Good point, Winn. Thanks for your comments.
Comment by: skikid
8Ir~
I know that when I first started going to Church I ended up next to a person (who is now one of my best friends) and it was her “job” so to speak to make sure I didnt get lost in the service, she tried her best to explain everything to me, she made it a lot less overwhelming. She was really helpful and I think that is what you were trying to do here (correct me if I am wrong Ir).
I have been mulling this over a bit this morning on my walk to class, I guess I can see both sides of it right now.
Maybe one of the best things that I encountered at chruch was people who just listened. They didnt try to explain away my feelings about things, even when they thought there was a clear explaination. They just accepted me for who I was and where I was in this crazy (lots of adjectives work here) journey of faith.
There is a balance and I am not sure where all this falls on it.
Comment by: Ir
9Hi skikid,
Yes, that was what I was trying to do. But unlike the person who is now your best friend, perhaps it wasn’t my job to do it!
I’m glad the people you met at church accepted you and listened to you. It’s so wonderful to find people like that. (I know that there are atheists who are good listeners and very accepting of where another person is at also)