Posted by Hemant Mehta on: 03.16.2006 /
I’ve asked this before, but as I’m going back to church this weekend (no, I’m not saying where), what questions would people like to see answered?
My old surveys can be found via the sidebar on the right. If you haven’t read through them, please skim them to get an idea of what I look for… if there’s something I haven’t commented on, please comment and I will do my best to look out for it this weekend. :)
Can’t wait to hear your replies.
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
1Hemant, I don’t know quite how to put this into a question. Instead let me describe what I’m trying to suggest with a story.
I’ve been a Christian for a long time, but I am still very interested in understanding how others deal with the spiritual side of life. (It’s why I’m here.) I’ve recently finished a comparative religion course that included a series of lectures — a dozen — on Islam. It was interesting factual knowledge, but I found it ‘dry’ in a certain sense.
As it happens I have a long time friend at work who is muslim. We’ve never talked about religion, but in the light of the class I told him I’d like to ask him some questions. I wanted to find out, what is it like on the “inside”? How do you really practice Islam? what is life like? What are the routines of life? And so on.
It turned out to be extremely fascinating. I learned a great deal. I was amazed at some of the similarities between the three monotheisms, especially Judaism and Islam. He learned a lot, too. I think he was especially surprised to hear a Christian explanation of the story of Abraham sacrificing his son. He was intimately familiar with the story, yet amazed at the different understanding.
I don’t know how you can do that, but I know my understanding of Islam increased exponentially thereby.
Tom in Sacramento
Comment by: Ir
2Hemant, I’ve found your church surveys detailed and complete and I can’t think of anything you haven’t mentioned that I’d like to see discussed. Maybe others can. I’ll be curious whether anyone at churches you visit from now on will recognize you because of your media appearances. In fact, has that happened at all - have any strangers said “Hey, are you that ebay atheist guy I saw on the news/Sun Times?” (I don’t know that they’d be able to recognize you from the WSJ drawing)
Tom, your comments raise the interesting issue of “Is visiting churches a good/valid/sufficient way to learn what it’s like to be a follower of Jesus/Christian?” I’ve seen a number of Christians here question whether it is. Most of them, as I recall, have said Hemant needs to read the Bible if he wants to find God. I don’t think anyone else has suggested asking followers of Jesus/Christian questions to find out what it’s like on the inside to be one.
Nevertheless, visitng churches is what Hemant agreed to do. Such things as reading the Bible and/or personally interviewing followers of Jesus/Christians to see what it’s like to be one go beyond what he’s being paid for, it seems to me.
Comment by: Peter in Pennsylvania
3I’d be curious to know your impression of their media and presentation. In other words, if they’re in the middle of a sermon series on something, does all the media/film clips/drama/stage decoration (if they have it) work together to make their point. Does it matter? Is it distracting? Is it horribly done? Is it well done?
Our church here in Western PA goes to great lengths to “pull out all the stops” for our sermon series and such. Our gut feeling is that tying everything together for the message is a good thing. I would love to hear your perspective on that, if, of course, any of the churches you visit have such an emphasis.
Thanks! This blog has become a pretty regular “time-waster” for me. (Only kidding… I work at this church and a big part of my job is to try and understand the kind of things we’re wrestling with on this diablog.) Thanks again, Jim, Hemant, and all those who post. This is TOO enlightening for words!
Comment by: Stephan
4Hemant, I am active in helping plan and lead the services at my church, and I struggle with the whole experience getting stale. Many have commented on the liturgy of the Catholic church, but I think evangelical churches have just replaced it with their own liturgy. We use the same parts every week (sing a few songs, read some scripture, take an offering, hear a sermon, sing a closing song, go home), we just might put them in a slightly different order from week to week. I would like to hear about anybody doing something different, and how that looks and feels. You probably have not gone to church enough for it to feel stale, but for someone who has been doing it for almost 39 years, I need a change.
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
5Ir, you and I are thinking along the same lines. I was reluctant to suggest too much direct involvement; it is beyond the scope of the “contract”, it requires personal engagement — a quantum leap in committment, not to mention requiring more time and intimacy. But, IMO, in the final analysis Christianity is way, way more than what you can observe on Sunday morning. There is a relational dimension and an experiential dimension that cannot be understood simply by observation.
Even the dialog I had with my muslim friend doesn’t take me all the way to full understanding, but it at least opened that door to the experiential side.
Stephan, out church uses all manner of media mixed in with the music and sermon. We’ve had an artist painting and illustrating the message. Lot’s of drama, video, music (including carefully selected “secular” music). Last year at Easter we did “CSI: Jerusalem” in which we recreated Jerusalem at the time of the crucifixion. Had a real live camel as well as actors portraying all the key characters and lots of folks from church involved in playing the street scenes. (My favorite was my buddy whose lost a leg. He took off his prosthesis and, with his stump hanging out was a beggar. It was great.)
But in the end, IMO you cannot make church “always new”. The “always newness” comes with God as it does with people; by keeping a relationship fresh and personal and growing. If that is happening, the structure of the service is almost irrelevant. If that is not happening, the structure of the service won’t creat it.
I think the greatest flaw of the contemporary service style is that there seems to be an implicit underlying assumption that “programming” can bring life to an otherwise dead body. Taint so.
Tom in Sacramento
Comment by: everett
6i would like to know more of the meat and potatoes of the sermons than what is going around during or before the sermon. for me i enjoy a more conservative service than a contemporary one myself. if i went to find a church that is what i would look for myself.
i don’t think there is a right and wrong way to worship to me what the pastor or preist has to say is more relevant than anything else.
so i guess my question for you is to disect the sermon and see what you get out of it
Comment by: David S
7Is Hemant’s personal ebayatheist blog getting attacked by hackers or what? It’s always down.
Comment by: Cully
8Blogger has a bad server that they are in the process of replacing. Hemant’s site is on the bad server I believe.
Comment by: Ron
9Hemant:
I’ve enjoyed every one of your posts, and I admire your evenhandedness. I’d be curious to hear your observations and perceptions of the intangible aspects of a church service. Beyond the formalities (what is said or sung or ritualized), what do you sense is happening below the surface? Anything (or does everything at church remain right on the surface)? Can the phenonemon of people going to church be explained as self-inflicted delusion, wishful thinking, or people whose lives are so boring they have nothing better to do with their Sunday mornings? Or perhaps these people go to church because it’s good for business, or because they think God will notice their devotion and reward them with a winning lottery ticket. I’m not suggesting you become a mindreader, but have you seen (or heard) evidence of what attracts large numbers of people to church? On the other hand, is there something going on that can’t be explained away so easily? Do you sense anything mystical or spiritual that keeps people coming back week after week when they could just as easily sleep in on Sunday mornings?
Ron
Comment by: skikid
10Have fun churchin’ it up this weekend! I would love to know how differnt presentation styles strike you. I think some one touched on it above but I have really only experienced simple services (no power point or multi media… we are happy if someone remembers to bring a guitar). So your input there would be interesting!
Comment by: Eliza
11It’d be interesting to hear your thoughts on any message boards outside the churches you go to - I always read these when I pass churches & they seem to be directed to people who already know the message, written in gospel “code” almost.
Here’s my 2 cents, would like to suggest you attend a Friends Meeting (Quaker) - there are several in the Chicago area, a handy website tells me - a nonevangelical meeting would be quite a different model from the others you’ve attended, without a minister & with members of the meeting speaking as the spirit moves them, so to speak.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
12If you could send us some links to Quaker meetings (especially any meeting on a weeknight)
We’ll seriously look into this
Comment by: Eliza
13Go to Quakerfinder & type in the city/state and/or zip code - it looks like there are 6 meetings in the Chicago area, all on Sunday AMs but the one in Lake Forest (zip 60045) also meets on Thursdays at 8AM (not an ideal time for a graduate student, I know!). These are all “unprogrammed worship” meetings, according to the website.
Comment by: Ir
14Hello Zachery (fran?) What do you have against old women?
Comment by: Eliza
15I get to interact with women in their 80’s and 90’s all the time in my work - talk about feisty and unstinting in voicing their opinions! It’s great to talk with them. I only hope I can be as bold as some of them when/if I get to that age.
Comment by: TXatheist
16Zach,
Who you calling weepy and soft? I’m smiling so go ahead and answer:)
Comment by: Gloria Isabel
17Hi there,
This whole exercise is a futile effort. It seems to me that people are putting down religion and confusing religion with God. The flawed logic here is: If religion doesn’t stand scrutiny then God is not real?
Allow me to explain my view on this:
GOD is NOT a religion. Religion is a man-made concept and very FLAWED. There is no such thing as a perfect religion or the right religion.
The existence of a creator is undeniable in my humble opinion because of my personal experiences posted on my blog where I challenge atheist to prove their convictions. I was cured of a BRAIN CYST okay, an inoperable one that was in the center of my brain and caused excrutiating migraines that lasted for 3 months on one occasion. I endured the condition for years - have MRIs to prove everything - from the initial finding, the growth of the cyst and it’s eventual mysterious disapearance after a night of prayer.
I don’t understand how people can deal with the fact that any invention or innovation in existence was created by a man/woman who dreamed it up first - but cannot understand that it took a supreme being to design and manifest the world as we know it.
To all atheists: Your thoughts and feelings are not tangible items I can see and touch, does that mean they do not exist and in turn if you are your thoughts and feelings does that mean YOU do not really exist?
It just doesn’t make sense to me how people think that life on earth as we know it was a coincidence.
Feel free to read my challenge and post your thoughts after you read it. Read my blog entry of 2/3/2006
Keep this in mind: I am not asking that people discuss Religion - again a man made concept that is flawed, taught by people who are human and imperfect so don’t knock down religion.
Can you prove a Creator does not exist?
Are you up for a challenge?
Comment by: Ir
18Gloria, I have a good Christian friend who has two children still at home; his wife died of cancer recently. Why did God cure you and not my friend’s wife? I have another good Christian friend whose 14 year old niece went in for surgery and died because the doctors made a mistake. Why did God allow that to happen?
Comment by: Eliza
19Gloria
The existence or nonexistence of God is something that noone can prove beyond someone else’s reasonable doubts, though clearly people can convince themselves (or God can convince them ;). The burden of proof, if a proof is possible, is on those who claim the positive - that the claimed existence is true. The negative - the absence or nonexistence of a thing - can’t be proven. You say in your blog entry of 2/3,
You admit you don’t have a way to prove it, OK fine. You report that you can definitely feel the presence, and I’m really glad for you. You’ve decided for yourself, and that’s great. But please don’t belittle the thoughts, feelings, and existence of people who don’t experience or believe the same things as you. Or at least just keep it on your own website.
Comment by: Eliza
20(Oh, that’s how you guys get the emoticons to show up!!)
Comment by: TXatheist
21Gloria,
I’m headed to your blog but may or may not answer. I don’t want to waste your or my time. But there is something you are incorrect about. When we connect the brain to a scanner we can actually measure what parts of the brain receive electric waves between the neurapathways. If you kick me in the privates I’ll cry and I assure you’ll see stars above my head. Ok, maybe just tears rolling down my cheeks but you get the idea. Neural activity is seeable.