Posted by Lisa on: 04.05.2006 /
My favorite period for Christian music was in the 60’s including the sound track from the musical HAIR. Here is a recent comment directed to Hemant regarding quality and preference in the contemporary Christian music world. What’s your opinion? Play that funky music….
I was wondering: you seem to enjoy Christian music. That’s interesting, because I know a number of Christians who do not like it at all. They think Christian music, especially CCM, is trite, repetitive, and both musically and lyrically substandard. They would rather listen to secular music, even if it openly disagrees with their Christianity, because they feel it is better made. What specifically do you like and dislike about the Christian music you have heard, and why do you think Christians are so critical of the music their brothers and sisters in Christ put out?
~Diamondbax
Hemant’s response is comment #6 below
Comment by: brett jordan
1Christian music is just like every other type of music. There is good stuff, middling stuff and really awful stuff. The Christian music industry is a business. It produces stuff that people will buy. A lot of Christians like ‘pleasant/affirming’ (read ‘bland/trite) songs. So there is a lot of stuff out there to cater to this. However, there are a lot of musicians (who happen to be Christians) who produce a wide range of music that is impossible to ‘pigeon-hole’.
Comment by: fresnodave
2Bono says it well:
Quote:
“God is interested in truth, and only in truth. And that’s why God is more interested in Rock & Roll music than Gospel… Many gospel musicians can’t write about what’s going on in their life, beacuse it’s not allowed ..If you can’t write about what’s really going on in the world and your life, because it’s all happy-clappy… Is God interested in that? I mean, ‘Please, don’t patronize Me! I want to go the Nine-Inch-Nails gig, they’re talking the truth!”
(http://3dff.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=727&highlight=u2+nine+nails)
Also, our forum asked particilpants to list their most inspring sings..no holds barred, officially “Christian” or not. Great results:
http://3dff.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=2146
Comment by: Julie C.
3I think some of the issues with christian music are the jmp quotas (jesus per minute) that radio stations have and the concept that christians can’t give bad reviews to christian groups - so everyone gets praised no matter how good they are…
Comment by: Peter in Pennsylvania
4Yes, Brett! So true. (btw, I’m not sure I’d categorize “Hair” as Christian music…)
There is a lot of AWFUL Christian music. Just AWFUL! Then there’s some of those who try and stick with quality, often in the “non-christian” music world, like Stephen Delopolous, P.O.D., Switchfoot, Lifehouse, and my fave, the band that speaks to my heart (as a Xian) more than any other… U2. (I frankly don’t understand how you can understand much of their last two albums unless you have some familiarity with the Bible at least.)
Comment by: Rick
5IMO there is no such thing as secular music. Its just music. If it is directed to some religion, then it can be some X-religion music.
Now for christian music, I tend to be classicist. Nothing beats Mozart Requiems, especially Dies Irae. Other beautiful classcial religious pieces are Handel’s Messiah, Vivaldi’s Gloria Excelcis Deo, then some Bach, Schubet’s Ave Maria. Of course the Gregorian chants are pretty fascinating too.
The contemporary Christian music doesn’t live up to my expectations and like Julie said, the jpm factor completes the job of making it monotonous.
Comment by: Siamang
6What’s the addage? “90% of everything is crap.”
Schubert’s Ave Maria. Great example, Rick. Probably there’s no lovelier piece of music written.
Comment by: Lisa
7This comment from Hemant originally published at the “Via Christus” posting.
Diamondbax— Thanks for the nice words. Why did I do it? Because right now, all I see are the two sides stereotyping the other one… and I think (especially at Via Christus) if people could be flies on the wall, they would be shocked at the types of Christians they saw, and the type of Atheist they saw. Both were going against the grain of the image they don’t like. And the newer image needs to be the default one in peoples’ minds.
And, yes, I like the Christian music… but I don’t remember saying anything about the lyrics If anything, I agree that the lyrics are pretty dull and certainly not too appealing to someone who doesn’t believe Jesus is the Son of God. I remember at one Church, the lyrics were pretty offensive to non-believers. What I do like is the live music aspect to it; The singing, the instruments, etc. How often do you get to see that outside a concert?!
I’m really not one to critique Christian music, since I hear so little of it, but it’s hard to dance to a song that says Respect the Lord. And if I listened to most of these lyrics while driving, I’d probably fall asleep at the wheel.
I do agree that the “secular” music is better quality than religious music. Then again, so are secular magazines and secular TV shows. I’ll pick UPN over PAX-TV any day. I’m not sure why that is. I’d like to think the secular world just has a more diverse pool of talent to draw from, but I have nothing to back that up. Does anyone else who feels the same have any theories on this?
— Hemant
Comment by: Lisa W.
8I take back my association of the musical HAIR with the Jesus movement of the 60’s. I don’t know what I was thinking. I must have been high at the time. Wait, I was only 9.
But hey! I’m “still spreading the groovy revolution.”
Comment by: Siamang
9“Godspell” then, Lisa!
Comment by: Lisa W.
10Yes! Godspell!
I’ve recovered.
Thanks, Siamang.
Comment by: Stephan
11I have played in Christian bands, I was a DJ on Christian radio for 8 years and was the music director for a CCM satellite radio network. I really enjoyed some of the music, but much of it was trite with a capital T, because many of the people writing it are as deep as a puddle and are only producing what they think will sell.
I am currently the music leader at my church and regularly struggle to find songs that share what I believe to be sound theology. Many of the “worship” songs sung in church are just love songs with the word “Jesus” in place of “Baby”.
If I had to make a choice between a church that only did contemporary music or one that only did the old hymns, it would be an easy choice. Give me the old hymns any day.
Comment by: Rick
12Stephan said:
Eric Cartman from South Park :P ;)
Comment by: Jim Henderson
13Or the opposite could also be true
Many love songs are shortsighted attempts of humans substituting a “baby” for a god they don’t know how to sing to
Comment by: Tom E
14Lisa & Siamang,
I was pretty young during the 60’s myself. I was a nostalgic hippie-wanna-be while they were happening and right on through the next decade too. I enjoyed the spirit of the times. For me, much of it was captured by music. And by theater…
I enjoyed [i]Godspell[i/].
I enjoyed [i]Hair[/i].
And while we’re on the subject of the Gospel goes to Broadway and the movies, let’s not leave out [i]Jesus Christ Superstar! [/i]
I suppose my favorite song from [i]Godspell[/i] was/is [i]By My Side[/i]. Great music, great lyrics: [i] “Where are you going? Can you take me with you?… I’ll put a pebble in my shoe… call the pebble Dare… We will walk… talk… Dare shall be carried… Then I’ll take your hand, finally glad that you are here by my side.” [/i] Apart from its context, it doesn’t seem to be overtly religious, but people see and hear what they will.
Speaking of which, Lisa, I can imagine why you may have been thinking about [i]Hair[/i]. The story line is, of course, anti-establishment. The main character (the one with all the shining, gleaming, flaxen [actually brown], waxen hair) literally steps all over anything that smacks of staleness or hypocrisy. But, in his own way, he genuinely cares for certain people. Without specifically intending his own inevitable death, he nevertheless takes the place of his new friend and gets herded onto the plane going to Vietnam in his stead. I assume the similarities to the story of Christ were intentional. And another really cool song completes the ensemble: [i]This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius…[/i]
Some music wouldn’t be the same, and certainly wouldn’t have come to our attention, without theater. I like music. I like song. I also like stories. It’s great when they come together in a compelling way.
Comment by: NCxian
15We just bought a CD of Jesus Christ, Superstar. Now my 7 and 10 year olds are singing along with Pontius Pilate, “Prove to me that you’re no fool–walk across my swimming pool!”.
As I’ve listened to that soundtrack, it seems to me to be pretty conventional storyline and theology. But when the play originally came out, wasn’t there some outrage expressed about it? (I would have been about 10 myself, I think, so I don’t remember any details). Is there something subversive about the play that I don’t pick up in the songs? I guess the traditional story of Jesus is pretty subversive–was it being used in the play to make a statement about power or war or something?
Comment by: Ir
16Absolutely. Which I find very disturbing - because what it means is that Christian songs are attempting to evoke the romantic feelings that love songs attempt to evoke. I’d rather see that sort of emotional manipulation (as well as any other) kept out of churches.
Another thing that bugs me: those nebulous metaphor songs like “You are the air I breathe” - I mean, really, what is that even supposed to mean? It would be different if these sorts of metaphors were interspersed with something more concrete. But they often aren’t.
Then there are all the “I will” contemporary Christian songs. Very American; not very Biblical.
Why do I even care if I don’t believe them anyway? Because contradictions and inconsistencies bother me. The music lyrics should match the church teachings. The music shouldn’t evoke ‘romantic love’ feelings when the church teaching a) teaches that God’s love is nothing like human love b)continually emphasizes the importance of people controlling their desires and not acting on their emotions.
Contemporary worship music bugs me (can you tell? :)).
When I used to believe, I found the contemporary songs more personally challenging (on the whole) because I had to sing stuff like “I love you Lord” and that always made me ask myself: did I really? Would I live the way I did if I really loved the Lord? Where am I doing things that show I love him less than I should?
When I was still going to church but basically was not committed personally to any belief, I greatly preferred the traditional service, because there’s not that peer pressure to look like you’re overflowing with joy when you’re singing about Jesus. And I liked the richness of the words. I didn’t relate to ‘God’ but I still loved the words about peace, joy, forgiveness, love, kindness - etc. (I didn’t love all the words but I did love some of them)
It could be true, yes - it’s a good point.
In the wider sense I think the question of ‘do people try to satisfy a need for God with human love?’ is a profound one that is worth asking. I’m fairly sure that we would not all agree on the answer ;)
Sticking with your specific point: many love songs are shortsighted attempts of humans substituting a “baby” for a god they don’t know how to sing to - I disagree, because as best I can tell, love songs about other humans are firmly based in experience of human relationships (albeit somewhat idealized).
When I used to believe as a Christian, I thought that everyone needed God and those who didn’t know God through Jesus Christ were meeting that need in some sort of inferior way.
When I stopped believing I moved to thinking that as humans, most of us are happier if we have some good relationships. Relationships are risky, complicated things (but the more risk we take, the more reward potential we have - just like the stock market :)). And some people who find their relationships lacking (maybe we all do, to some extent) are drawn to the belief that they can have a perfect relationship with God. (I don’t personally see how a relationship with someone who doesn’t talk back to you in an unambiguous way comes anywhere close to perfect, but anyway…) Whether God is real or not, a belief is still a powerful thing. Think about if you received a message that someone you cared about was seriously hurt in an accident. If you believed it, you would be very emotionally affected whether it was actually true or not.
Sorry if I got too far off topic…
Comment by: Stephan
17NC, the play and movie represent a far more human side of Jesus than most Christians are comfortable with. There is hardly any content that shows him as divine, and he struggles with doubt and fear. It shows a much grittier view of Jesus and the apostles.
I think it’s a great counterpoint to the way most Christians view Jesus. I believe He really had to struggle with doubt and fear, or He wasn’t really human.
Comment by: Ir
18I agree. For many Christians/Jesus-followers, to believe that they have to have figured out that doubt and fear aren’t necessarily sinful. Not all Christians seem to have figured that out yet (unfortunately).
Comment by: Lisa
19I adore musicals and the theater and JC Superstar and I love the ‘human side’ of Jesus.
Something we like to say at Off-The-Map: “Jesus walked on water once, the rest of the time he took a boat.” Get practical.
It has bumpersticker merit.
Comment by: Tanya
20Hi. I’m brand new here, but just wanted to say that you can find JC Superstar on video. It was recorded as a movie. I think I found it at blockbuster like 15 years ago or something. I’d just graduated from high school, and my drama friends and I all thought it was the best music in the world. We sang and cavorted to every song on the tape. (yes, it actually was a tape.) A few months prior to that, we had just done Godspell in our high school musical. My solo was “Oh bless the Lord My Soul”, but I have to confess, that some of my favorites from that musical are “the intro”, “Where are you going” (definitely a great one), and “It’s all for the best”
“Some men are born to live at ease, doing what they please, richer than the bees are in honey…” good stuff
Comment by: NCxian
21Welcome, Tanya!
I will have to see if I can find a copy of the video now!
Comment by: Eliza
22Yes, welcome Tanya!
We had an LP of Jesus Christ Superstar when I was a kid. I used to listen to it over and over. I particularly liked Yvonne Elliman’s songs, “I Don’t Know How to Love Him” and “Everything’s Alright” - in fact, I sang them (or what I remember of them) to my son as lullabies when he was a baby.
Good luck finding the video, NC!
Comment by: Mike O
23Helen said …
For your a), where did you get that idea? Human love is a lesser-version of God’s love. God’s love is exactly like our love, only hopped up to the nth degree.
For your b) I guess I don’t understand what you mean. The bible is insanely pro-love. I must be missing your point.
That’s the whole point! I do the same thing, and where I see myself slipping into things I would never do or say or think to someone I love, I try to cut it out. And IMHO, a big problem with Christians today is that they couldn’t give a rat’s rear about whether or not the way they live reflects their love for Christ. That’s what bugs me, not the contrived emotion. Because for me, it’s not contrived … I really do love him.
I guess it’s just a matter of perspective.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
24Oh, I got it from some Christians - evidently you weren’t one of them ;-)
I can’t imagine how God could send people he created to hell if his love is just like mine but more so. (Mike, maybe we’ve been down this path before - if so, sorry, I don’t remember your response)
The Bible as interpreted by conservative Christians isn’t always insanely pro-love; for example it’s not pro-love if the person doing the loving happens to be gay.
I’m glad you take the words of those songs seriously, Mike.