Inspiring! 1% of our budget is so trivial but that’s my opinion. I also want to comment. He mentioned Lev 25:35 about helping the poor and then he says some people tithe 10%. Sorry, but that’s the mormons and what do they do? They build temples in major cities and send missionaries around the world to give people a book. Sorry, don’t agree with that. To me that is the key problem of why this can’t work. He said the preachers on tv are wanting money. All organized religion is like that. I’ve been conversing with bob and I think he gets the way religion should be, imo. He reads the bible and interprets to himself. He isn’t spoon fed what the minister wants him to believe. He doesn’t jump on one bandwagon of xianity. I think we as a society would be so much better off if we had that level of pluralism. Now, huge groups of religion have power because they are united and they abuse the power very badly, yes very badly, imo. I do think some of my fellow humans like Peter, Bruce L, bob, Mike/Julie are the xians that would donate to the 1%. Can you imagine that box being on your tax form instead of the $3 dollar fund for presidential campaigns. $3 from each US citizen. Almost 1 billion dollars.
Inspiring, moving, agree w/ above. A big thank you to Bono for not holding back when he has the ear of powerful people, and for reminding all of us how much suffering is a daily part of so many people’s lives around the world, particularly in Africa.
A few quotes that caught my ear [and near-quotes, as close as I could catch having it run while I'm at work]:
“[One thing I got from my mom and dad is] the idea that religion often gets in the way of God.”
“God may well be with us in the mansions on the hill…but [one thing is for sure] God is in the slums, in the cardboard boxes [where the poor play house]…God is in the debris of wasted opportunities and lives, and God is with us when we are with them.”
“It’s very easy these days to see religion as a force for division, rather than unity.”
“…United in the belief that where you live should no longer determine whether you live.”
“This is not about charity, it’s about justice…justice and equality.”
“There is no way we can look at what’s happening in Africa and [not know deep down that we would not let it happen anywhere else].”
“Stop asking God to bless what you are doing - start getting involved in what God is doing, because it’s already blessed.”
and:
“I’m certainly not here because I’m a man of the cloth, unless that cloth is leather.”
The strongly pro-justice approach of both this speech and the website for the Church of the Reconciliation (?) that someone mentioned a few days ago - sorry, can’t find the link & can’t remember who brought it up - are really inspiring. Have to figure out how to act upon that inspiration & MTWABP…
TX, it isn’t only the mormons who give 10%. A lot of Christians do, or strive to. 9I believe it is true that for Mormons, unlike other churches, the 10% is mandatory. Don’t know if that’s what you were thinking of.)
Then, the figure Bono cited was, I assume (given his audience) a federal budgetary number. But I have heard, can’t put my finger on it right now, that private giving greatly exceeds federal giving. Certainly some of that is “missions support” which I can understand you might be reluctant to count. But much of that missions support goes for schools and hospitals, wells and ag programs, public health care training, etc. (I’ve known people involved in each of these areas.) So the fact is that the US probably is giving, out of the total US pot, something more like 2 or 3%, maybe more.
Finally, though I applaud Bono’s objectives, there is no way I want that money going through the goverenment. First, they skim it to the tune of 20%. It creates its own bureaucracy. And there is the potential for graft. Think UN Oil-for-Food. Finally, if the US can’t even do simple stuff colse to home effectively, no way do I want it to attempt, in my name, complex stuff a long way from home.
As John Kenneth Galbraith has said, “You will find that the State is the kind of organization which,
though it does big things badly, does small things badly, too.”
A lot of xians give 10% outside mormonism to tithing? I doubt that. And you’re right in that mormons are forced to give that if they want to remain in good standing and be allowed to go to the temples. No 10% no entrance to the temple for your brothers wedding. I’d be surprised if the top 10% of money earners gave 10% let alone the general xian population. If you really want to see corruption ask the vatican or mormon church for their financial records. You got a better chance of finding god:)
Every little bit helps, don’t you think? The government already takes our money, so why not ask them to spend it on things that are really important, like helping the suffering, rather than on creating more suffering by dropping bombs and starting wars?
Even if it is inefficient, I’d rather see 1% of my tax dollars go towards saving lives and not taking them.
I didn’t pay too much attention to the #s he used & suggested - he was talking at a prayer breakfast w/ Bush and a bunch of other politicos, & he was basically issuing a challenge: “do more”.
Mike C,
Then get more xians to support stem cell research. They aren’t about to take from the DOD spending? And what is Bush doing now with foreign aid? Teaching Africans abstinence. Great, that really helps them when the women are raped by militia. Send them condoms, not bible based nonsense.
I have substantial concerns about the governments ability to distribute the proceeds of the ONE campaign effectively. Also, there are many corrupt regimes in Africa; if the US government gives them money, we are helping to prop them up. I’m not saying the ONE campaign is a bad idea, actually I like it. But I don’t want my tax dollars going to support some tyrant polishing his gold throne while his people die of starvation and disease. THAT is repugnant to me.
There are already relief agencies in Africa, working mightily to ease human suffering. Being a Christian, the ones I know of are faith based, but I am sure there are secular ones there too. Give.org is a website that ranks charities based upon their stewardship (its secular but rates most charities). I would urge all of us to give, and give generously, to the well run charity of your choice.
Regarding tithing, I can only speak from personal experience. According to the last annual report from my church the average giving per household was just over $3000 a year. The average annual income in the surrounding area is $50,000. That doesn’t get to 10%, but it’s a pretty healthy chunk, and you have to take into account that some families give next to nothing. Also, it doesn’t take into account that people also give to organizations outside the church. In my little slice of Americana, 10% is prettly close to reality.
6% is not close to 10%, it’s just above half. I’d agree that many xians strive to give 5% but can’t due to financial strain. 10% is an exagerated guesstimate that overestimates their generosity.
TX, my point was that some people who give next to nothing bring that average down, and people probably also give to organizations outside the church. If you factor these in you will probably get closer to 10%.
Oh, well if you want to count all positions of giving as 10% then I tithe too. I was talking about the biblical idea of giving 10% of your best to god as the bible commands. I was referring to church tithing to which 5% would be on the high end of how much actually give,except mormons in good standing. They have little choice.
I was referring to church tithing to which 5% would be on the high end of how much actually give,except mormons in good standing. They have little choice.
Most evangelical Christians consider 10% the “biblical starting point” for tithing. Many I know do that. Most I know who do also give generously to other causes, especially those associated with world hunger. (I’m running out of friends who DON’T support a child through Compassion or World Vision or such, and many of my friends/church members are taking regular time away from work to travel to Mississippi to help rebuild a town there that we’ve partnered with…) Is it true that most don’t? Undoubtedly. I know in my church we do NOT push this issue on people. We want them to give joyfully, “out of the abundance of their hearts.” We’re not legalistic like the Mormons you mention. I think that misses the point.
And I like what you say. (It’s always abundantly clear you know the Bible pretty well.) We ARE supposed to give 10% of our best! If we all gave a little more as Bono asks, there would be a HUGE difference made! It’s funny, I’m often criticized for holding Bono up as an example of a real Christian behaving like one should. Legalistic Christians can’t handle that. (And yes, the man does believe Jesus is the Son of God and all that, despite what some have misquoted him as saying.) But he is putting his money and action and energy where his heart is. Listening to him talk makes me think we really COULD eliminate hunger on this planet.
The man inspires me!
“Freedom has a scent… Like the top of a newborn baby’s head…”
Comment by: Marty
1Fabulous, right on, moving, powerful,courageos, brings out the best of who we are!
Comment by: TXatheist
2Inspiring! 1% of our budget is so trivial but that’s my opinion. I also want to comment. He mentioned Lev 25:35 about helping the poor and then he says some people tithe 10%. Sorry, but that’s the mormons and what do they do? They build temples in major cities and send missionaries around the world to give people a book. Sorry, don’t agree with that. To me that is the key problem of why this can’t work. He said the preachers on tv are wanting money. All organized religion is like that. I’ve been conversing with bob and I think he gets the way religion should be, imo. He reads the bible and interprets to himself. He isn’t spoon fed what the minister wants him to believe. He doesn’t jump on one bandwagon of xianity. I think we as a society would be so much better off if we had that level of pluralism. Now, huge groups of religion have power because they are united and they abuse the power very badly, yes very badly, imo. I do think some of my fellow humans like Peter, Bruce L, bob, Mike/Julie are the xians that would donate to the 1%. Can you imagine that box being on your tax form instead of the $3 dollar fund for presidential campaigns. $3 from each US citizen. Almost 1 billion dollars.
Comment by: Eliza
3Inspiring, moving, agree w/ above. A big thank you to Bono for not holding back when he has the ear of powerful people, and for reminding all of us how much suffering is a daily part of so many people’s lives around the world, particularly in Africa.
A few quotes that caught my ear [and near-quotes, as close as I could catch having it run while I'm at work]:
“[One thing I got from my mom and dad is] the idea that religion often gets in the way of God.”
“God may well be with us in the mansions on the hill…but [one thing is for sure] God is in the slums, in the cardboard boxes [where the poor play house]…God is in the debris of wasted opportunities and lives, and God is with us when we are with them.”
“It’s very easy these days to see religion as a force for division, rather than unity.”
“…United in the belief that where you live should no longer determine whether you live.”
“This is not about charity, it’s about justice…justice and equality.”
“There is no way we can look at what’s happening in Africa and [not know deep down that we would not let it happen anywhere else].”
“Stop asking God to bless what you are doing - start getting involved in what God is doing, because it’s already blessed.”
and:
“I’m certainly not here because I’m a man of the cloth, unless that cloth is leather.”
Comment by: Bob
4Gee, thanks TX.
I’d check a box that said “Check here if you’d like $3 of your tax to go to reducing world debt.”
Of course, trusting that the money made it is another thing…
Comment by: Eliza
5The strongly pro-justice approach of both this speech and the website for the Church of the Reconciliation (?) that someone mentioned a few days ago - sorry, can’t find the link & can’t remember who brought it up - are really inspiring. Have to figure out how to act upon that inspiration & MTWABP…
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
6Good principles. Great speech. A couple problems.
TX, it isn’t only the mormons who give 10%. A lot of Christians do, or strive to. 9I believe it is true that for Mormons, unlike other churches, the 10% is mandatory. Don’t know if that’s what you were thinking of.)
Then, the figure Bono cited was, I assume (given his audience) a federal budgetary number. But I have heard, can’t put my finger on it right now, that private giving greatly exceeds federal giving. Certainly some of that is “missions support” which I can understand you might be reluctant to count. But much of that missions support goes for schools and hospitals, wells and ag programs, public health care training, etc. (I’ve known people involved in each of these areas.) So the fact is that the US probably is giving, out of the total US pot, something more like 2 or 3%, maybe more.
Finally, though I applaud Bono’s objectives, there is no way I want that money going through the goverenment. First, they skim it to the tune of 20%. It creates its own bureaucracy. And there is the potential for graft. Think UN Oil-for-Food. Finally, if the US can’t even do simple stuff colse to home effectively, no way do I want it to attempt, in my name, complex stuff a long way from home.
As John Kenneth Galbraith has said, “You will find that the State is the kind of organization which,
though it does big things badly, does small things badly, too.”
Comment by: TXatheist
7A lot of xians give 10% outside mormonism to tithing? I doubt that. And you’re right in that mormons are forced to give that if they want to remain in good standing and be allowed to go to the temples. No 10% no entrance to the temple for your brothers wedding. I’d be surprised if the top 10% of money earners gave 10% let alone the general xian population. If you really want to see corruption ask the vatican or mormon church for their financial records. You got a better chance of finding god:)
Comment by: Mike C
8Tom,
Every little bit helps, don’t you think? The government already takes our money, so why not ask them to spend it on things that are really important, like helping the suffering, rather than on creating more suffering by dropping bombs and starting wars?
Even if it is inefficient, I’d rather see 1% of my tax dollars go towards saving lives and not taking them.
Comment by: Eliza
9I didn’t pay too much attention to the #s he used & suggested - he was talking at a prayer breakfast w/ Bush and a bunch of other politicos, & he was basically issuing a challenge: “do more”.
Comment by: TXatheist
10Mike C,
Then get more xians to support stem cell research. They aren’t about to take from the DOD spending? And what is Bush doing now with foreign aid? Teaching Africans abstinence. Great, that really helps them when the women are raped by militia. Send them condoms, not bible based nonsense.
Comment by: Bob
11Send condoms to rapists? That’s utterly repugnant.
Comment by: Julie Marie
12I have substantial concerns about the governments ability to distribute the proceeds of the ONE campaign effectively. Also, there are many corrupt regimes in Africa; if the US government gives them money, we are helping to prop them up. I’m not saying the ONE campaign is a bad idea, actually I like it. But I don’t want my tax dollars going to support some tyrant polishing his gold throne while his people die of starvation and disease. THAT is repugnant to me.
There are already relief agencies in Africa, working mightily to ease human suffering. Being a Christian, the ones I know of are faith based, but I am sure there are secular ones there too. Give.org is a website that ranks charities based upon their stewardship (its secular but rates most charities). I would urge all of us to give, and give generously, to the well run charity of your choice.
Comment by: TXatheist
13Ok, don’t send them condoms and let the innocent women get pregnant and AIDS. At least give them abortion as an option, not abstinence.
Comment by: Stephan
14Regarding tithing, I can only speak from personal experience. According to the last annual report from my church the average giving per household was just over $3000 a year. The average annual income in the surrounding area is $50,000. That doesn’t get to 10%, but it’s a pretty healthy chunk, and you have to take into account that some families give next to nothing. Also, it doesn’t take into account that people also give to organizations outside the church. In my little slice of Americana, 10% is prettly close to reality.
Comment by: TXatheist
156% is not close to 10%, it’s just above half. I’d agree that many xians strive to give 5% but can’t due to financial strain. 10% is an exagerated guesstimate that overestimates their generosity.
Comment by: Stephan
16TX, my point was that some people who give next to nothing bring that average down, and people probably also give to organizations outside the church. If you factor these in you will probably get closer to 10%.
Comment by: TXatheist
17Oh, well if you want to count all positions of giving as 10% then I tithe too. I was talking about the biblical idea of giving 10% of your best to god as the bible commands. I was referring to church tithing to which 5% would be on the high end of how much actually give,except mormons in good standing. They have little choice.
Comment by: Peter in Pennsylvania
18TXatheist writes
Most evangelical Christians consider 10% the “biblical starting point” for tithing. Many I know do that. Most I know who do also give generously to other causes, especially those associated with world hunger. (I’m running out of friends who DON’T support a child through Compassion or World Vision or such, and many of my friends/church members are taking regular time away from work to travel to Mississippi to help rebuild a town there that we’ve partnered with…) Is it true that most don’t? Undoubtedly. I know in my church we do NOT push this issue on people. We want them to give joyfully, “out of the abundance of their hearts.” We’re not legalistic like the Mormons you mention. I think that misses the point.
And I like what you say. (It’s always abundantly clear you know the Bible pretty well.) We ARE supposed to give 10% of our best! If we all gave a little more as Bono asks, there would be a HUGE difference made! It’s funny, I’m often criticized for holding Bono up as an example of a real Christian behaving like one should. Legalistic Christians can’t handle that. (And yes, the man does believe Jesus is the Son of God and all that, despite what some have misquoted him as saying.) But he is putting his money and action and energy where his heart is. Listening to him talk makes me think we really COULD eliminate hunger on this planet.
The man inspires me!
“Freedom has a scent… Like the top of a newborn baby’s head…”