Posted by Hemant Mehta on: 04.17.2006 /
Hi everyone. I was at a conference all weekend in Kansas City hosted by Atheist Alliance International and my own group, the Secular Student Alliance. I was planning on writing a comparison to Christian conventions and/or my church visits. But since I’ve never been to a Christian convention, I think it might be useful to simply talk about what goes on at secular gatherings. It might help build a better picture of the issues that are important to us.
It might also be useful to take a second before reading on to consider what you think would go on at an Atheists’ convention.
Done? Good.
The first night, we were able to listen to Lori Lipman Brown, the first secular lobbyist in Washington D.C. talk about her experiences on Capitol Hill. She said she had been received warmly by both Democrats and Republicans, but it would certainly take time before she could truly have an effect by herself. Instead, she is relying on working together with other lobbying organizations (including religious ones) to work on common issues, such as Religious Equality in the Head Start program. The remarkable thing was that her business card has the word “Atheist” on it, and yet, people are talking to her. The audience loved it because that in itself is a huge step for us.
I also spoke the first night (the first time to an Atheist crowd) about this whole experience, and it went over well. I had a heckler, though. He didn’t appreciate the dialogue we have started here and thought that by being a “Friendly Atheist,” it meant I was denigrating the work of Michael Newdow, the “Under God” guy, and people like him who are not always portrayed as being friendly. (I wasn’t. Newdow is doing important, essential work.) but everyone else was as appalled by him as I was. People were thrilled that this story has gotten as much attention as it has and they loved that Christians and Atheists could discuss issues together, at least on this blog, so well.
Some other sessions included:
– A talk about getting more women involved in the Freethought movement
– A panel discussion by three men who used to be ministers (and are now Atheists) talking about their life in the Church and why they left
– Atheism and religious satire in the media
– A lecture explaining newer ideas (i.e. ones we may not be used to hearing) as to why Intelligent Design not only doesn’t qualify as a Science, but also why it’s not even a Pseudoscience.
– A talk by the university professor from Kansas who was going to teach a class called “Intelligent Design, Creationisms, and other Religious Mythologies.” Controversy arose. The class was cancelled. The professor was beaten up as a result.
– An overview of Camp Quest, a summer camp for Atheist children
– Secular meditation
“Atheist parenting” was another interesting panel discussion. The people on the panel included a mother of four who homeschools her children (Home-schooling, contrary to popular belief, is not just for religious people) and a man married to a Christian woman (they raise their kids as Atheists), among others. Someone asked whether the people were raising their kids to be Atheists and if that was hypocritical (Since we often rip on religious people who raise their kids to be religious, when the kids can’t really think for themselves until a later age). One guy on the panel mentioned that his 5-year-old child said to him, “Daddy, there is no God.” He asked her why she thought that. She said that she had seen astronauts go into outer space and they didn’t see God there, so there must not be one. The dad wasn’t happy with this, though. He corrected her and said that’s not what Christians actually believe; they believe that God can’t be physically seen, and that God exists outside of the world we know. The daughter thought about this and had to go back to rethinking what she thought she knew. He added he would also question her if she said there was a god– the point being, he wanted her to always ask these questions so that when she gets old enough, she can weigh the evidence for herself and come to a rational decision.
For what it’s worth, I asked if the parents would be upset if their kids turned out to be religious. All of them said they wouldn’t care. As long as the children actually put thought into their decision, it wouldn’t matter.
During the convention, a few other events stood out. We heard a story from a young girl (in grade school) and her mother. The little girl did not want to stand up during the Pledge of Allegiance, so she didn’t. During recess, two girls beat her up (there are more details to this, but they are unnecessary to make the point). The girl’s mother talked to the parents of the bullies. The parents were appalled, because while they were Christian, that’s obviously not how they raised their children to behave. But the message was clear that this Atheist girl was discriminated against for standing up for her beliefs.
On a more positive note, the [Richard] Dawkins award is given each year to the most outstanding Atheist. This year, the award went to Julia Sweeney (best known for her work as “Pat” on Saturday Night Live) who has a one-woman show called “Letting Go of God: My Beautiful Loss of Faith story.” She gave an incredibly heartfelt acceptance speech; it was really inspiring to watch.
That was the gist of the weekend. If you have any questions about the things I wrote, I’d be glad to answer them. Also, we will soon hopefully have audio from my own lecture. When I get it, I’ll post it at my website, www.friendlyatheist.com.
Leave a Reply
Comment by: Siamang
1 04/17/06 9:49 AM | Comment Link |Thanks Hemant.
Julia Sweeney is my favorite. Perhaps some day Richard Dawkins can win a “Sweeney Award.”
Comment by: Ir
2 04/17/06 9:57 AM | Comment Link |Hi Hemant,
Thanks for sharing what went on at the atheist conference. As someone who’s never been to an atheist conference I found it very interesting to read about.
I hope the heckler did not throw you too much off your stride.
I appreciate the parents’ willingness to let their children choose what to believe/not to believe. However I have to think that really, they would care if any of their children adopted a belief system which affected the relationship between them and their child. And if their child adopted a belief system which said that being an atheist was the biggest mistake anyone could make in life, I have to think that would affect their relationships.
Secular meditation sounds interesting: did you go to that session? Do you know what it is?
I didn’t know there were atheist summer camps. I did know some atheists choose to homeschool their children.
Here’s a question I have: did you hear many value-judgment-type comments about Christians in sessions or casual conversation, while you were at the conference - and to the extent you did, did you feel they were fair comments?
Comment by: Jim Henderson
3 04/17/06 10:13 AM | Comment Link |Siamang thank you for “keeping it real”
Giving out an award with Dawkins name attached to it would be like giving out an award with Falwells name attached to it from how I see it.
If I were an atheist, I would be hard pressed to accept an award (without some public comment) from (Dawkins) whom I see as the atheistic eqiuvalent of Falwell/Robertson or Franklin Graham.
I like Siamangs idea of “The Sweeny Award”- at least she’s funny
Comment by: Marty
4 04/17/06 10:22 AM | Comment Link |I was really hoping that a Christian would have attended the conference and reported with the same objectivity and insight as Hemant has on his visits to churches. I guess I was also somehow hoping that Jim might have been invited.
Comment by: Katherine
5 04/17/06 10:28 AM | Comment Link |Sounds fascinating, I wish we had more secular groups for young people and students in the UK.
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
6 04/17/06 11:33 AM | Comment Link |Most interesting thing to me: I can’t even imagine having a business card that said “Christian” on it.
Fascinating….
Comment by: Rorgg
7 04/17/06 12:16 PM | Comment Link |I’d be very surprised if a lobbyist for a Christian organization did not.
Comment by: Siamang
8 04/17/06 1:31 PM | Comment Link |I think that Ralph Reed probably had one that said “Christian Coalition” on it.
;-)
Comment by: Bob
9 04/17/06 1:32 PM | Comment Link |What would atheists talk about if theism didn’t exist? It seems all of the topics (except for Secular meditation) are set up with some relationship to religion.
Comment by: Siamang
10 04/17/06 1:34 PM | Comment Link |Tom wrote:
Usually they just have that fish. Especially if they’re a contractor or a plumber.
Comment by: Ir
11 04/17/06 2:33 PM | Comment Link |I’m guessing there are some Christians out there with a Bible verse on their card.
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
12 04/17/06 2:37 PM | Comment Link |Someone is misunderstanding something. Either I misunderstood and her card mentioned “atheist” in addition to her job title and organization. Or everyone else is misunderstanding. I understood Hemant to say that her card said, merely, only “atheist”. I doubt that Ralph Reed’s card says only Christian. It probably says the name of the organization and his title. The plumber may have a fish, but it will also have the name of his business.
Unless Hemant meant more than he said, it just seems very strange. As Bob said, it has no meaning apart from negating religion. I don’t get it.
Comment by: Ir
13 04/17/06 2:47 PM | Comment Link |Bob wrote:
Fun stuff, I expect ;)
Comment by: Bob
14 04/17/06 2:55 PM | Comment Link |But is there anything that atheists as a group stand “for”? Or do they just stand “against”?
Comment by: Jim Henderson
15 04/17/06 3:09 PM | Comment Link |Guys…Take it to the discussion board…
Lets tell Hemant what we appreciate about his survey
Comment by: skikid
16 04/17/06 7:23 PM | Comment Link |Hemant~
Great post as usual!
I have, on the occasions I have heard her, found Julia Sweeney to be a funny and entertaining speaker.
Hemant spoke about a little girl who was bullied at her school because of her beliefs… I know kids can be brutal but is this something that other atheist parents have come across? Being targeted specifically because of their non-belief?
Hemant wrote
“For what it’s worth, I asked if the parents would be upset if their kids turned out to be religious. All of them said they wouldn’t care. As long as the children actually put thought into their decision, it wouldn’t matter.”
That’s basically what my mother said to me, (with a few caveats)… so I guess that doesn’t really surprise me. How would Christians parents feel about this? Their kids deciding to be atheist?
Comment by: Jim Henderson
17 04/17/06 7:31 PM | Comment Link |I would especially like to hear from Cs who currently have kids in the house- that will make it more real
Comment by: Ir
18 04/17/06 7:58 PM | Comment Link |When I was a Christian I definitely wanted my children to be Christians too. What parent would want their children to go to hell or miss out on having a relationship with Jesus in this life? I prayed with them at bedtime, read them Bible stories, took them to church on Sunday and AWANA (kids club) on Wednesday with me and encouraged them to get baptized at a relatively early age.
That’s how I felt; I also remember parents at church sharing heartfelt prayer requests, asking God to bring their about adult children back to the faith.
Comment by: Esther
19 04/17/06 9:08 PM | Comment Link |I am a single mom with 2 sons aged 13 & 15.
I myself was raised in a Christian Pastor’s home.
Although my parents would never said that I have to become a Christian; or I have to live my life for the LORD…; I received this message from day 1 in my life.
I guess I could NOT went on the route my parents set for me, but I knew that they would be devastated. The reason being very obvious. Just as Ir has described in comment #2, in my parents’ thinking, taking this “belief system” is the only right way. Not taking it would mean all the bad thing including eternal torment in the after life! Of course this will make them very very sad.
Well, tell a long story short, I’m still a God believer for I really cannot deny God’s love and care in my life. But, I am sensing a lot of problem in this “belief system”; so I’m trying to re-establish the meaning of having a relationship with God.
I kind of like the idea Brian Mclaren has suggested, “being chosen may mean to join with the special mission rescue team of God to bring healing to this world.”
Therefore, as you can tell, I am now taking a very different approach in dealing with my sons than my parents.
I would say to them, “we do not have to go to Church every Sunday to show how much we honour God. We honour God in our everyday lives and not by observing the rituals.
I would also share with them my dis-appointment with the Church’s teaching and practices.
Just this past Good Friday, I’ve said to them, “I really feel that if the Christians want to thank Jesus for the sufferings he had endured, they should go out and help the poor and the sufferers instead of gathering together in the Church again and praise God. (I am not against the idea of worship; but I am definitely against Xians JUST worship and not go out and serve)
However, I found out something very interesting happening in my home. It seems that the more freedom I give to my sons, their zealousness toward Church or God (I’m not sure which one) are still plenty! They would urge me to bring them to youth group, Sunday worship, Sunday school, Summer camp, youth conference…everything! They read the Bible and the “Daily Bread” every night….
Do you think when they sign up for baptism, I should have a good talk with them? :-)
Comment by: Eliza
20 04/17/06 9:16 PM | Comment Link |Esther - I can’t help you with that question! Interesting result in your experiment with your sons, though!
Hemant - thanks for your comments - is this your last OTM write-up? And, any conclusions from the convention, or from your own experience in SSA, on how (or whether?? was that part of the discussion) to get more women involved in the Freethought movement?
Comment by: Lisa
21 04/17/06 10:05 PM | Comment Link |My daughter is nearly 13 and helps in the daycare area of our ‘church’. She likes church because she likes the people, she tells me. If she were to decide later that she would rather be an atheist I would probably be tempted to think I failed. Then I would convince myself that she was going through a phase. And I would pray alot.
Just keepin’ it real folks.
Comment by: Tom in Sacramento
22 04/17/06 11:32 PM | Comment Link |Kids in the house? I’ve got a double dose — and I love it!
My wife and I have three kids, 33, 34, and 35. Two of the three believe in God and consider themselves Christians but hardly ever darken the doorway of the church. The third I would class as at least agnostic, if not atheist. Certainly is a practical atheist. Do I wish they were more in agreement with my wife and I spiritually? Of course. But they’re grown ups and they are making their own choices as seems fitting to them and they are content to live with the consequences. What mor could I ask?
I said I have a double dose; my wife and I are also raising two of our grandchildren — a 12-year old boy and a 15-year old girl….and a double handful of their friends on a fairly regular basis it seems. The 15-year old is questioning and examining her faith, asking questions. And I am encouraging her to ask. The 12-year old begs every wek to be allowed to go to youth group…at a different church than we attend. And, of course, I’m only too happy to oblige.
First, I want to raise competent, confident decision makers. So it is vital to me to let them work through their own decision making process.
Second, God isn’t done with me yet. Why should I expect Him to be done with them? After all, He’s had a lot more time to work with me.
Comment by: Julie Marie
23 04/18/06 6:27 AM | Comment Link |I can’t be philosphical about it; if my child chose to become an atheist I would be upset. I would pray that he would have an experience with God that would change his mind. And I would search my history with him to see if there was a disconnect between my stated beliefs and my actions that caused cynicism in him.
Even as I say that though, I would rather have him be a thinking, active, engaged human being than a lockstep Christian with an apparent heart of stone. I think it would be easier for God to impact an open mind than a closed mind, no matter what camp that mind has roots.
Comment by: Anna
24 04/21/06 6:40 PM | Comment Link |I am a pastor and a parent. My son was baptized as an infant because I believe that in baptism God shows his commitment to the person being baptized. I will raise him in such a way that he will know what I believe and why I think it makes a difference that Christ died for us. He will be encouraged to question the faith of his family. After all, what kind of faith is it if you don’t test it–it would only be unthinking acceptance, not deeply held belief. If he should choose to believe differently, or not believe, I will be disappointed. BUT, I believe God’s love for him (and for each and every person) does not stop. There certainly are times when I question to the very depth of my being. Daily I reject God by my words and actions, but daily God says, “you are still my child. You are a sinner, but you are forgiven.” That gives me hope–for me and for all people. So, if my son believes differently, I will continue to hope and pray, and ultimately, I can trust his life only to God.
Comment by: Fellicity
25 04/23/06 6:12 PM | Comment Link |Hemant - congratulations on your scholarship! :-D
I’m so happy you had the opportunity to attend this event… and I’m slightly jealous. ;-) But even though I’m a 31 year old returning college student with a full-time job and a husband, you’ve just motivated me to get involved in the Secular Student Alliance. I’m working to get a group started at my school. Like you, I think the secular movement is just too important not to get involved in.
Shame about the heckler - clearly there are some atheists who are as… “fervent” about their beliefs as believers.
I’ve only recently learned about Camp Quest, and I LOVE the idea. If only there had been something like that for me when I was a kid - the only freethinker in a family of hard-core Southern Baptists. It gives my husband and me hope that if we ever do have kids, they’ll have opportunities to expand their worldview and meet other children from non-religious households while being challenged to think, question and explore (don’t us atheists just love that??)
I’m so glad Julia won the award! She - along with Dawkins, Carl Sagan and Douglas Adams - is one of my “atheist heroes”… the people who made me realize that there’s nothing at all wrong with me because I don’t beieve in the supernatural. It’s one thing to listen to a philosopher or scientist explain the reasoning and logic behind non-belief - it’s another to listen to someone like her with such a moving, heartfelt, down-to-earth story about her experience with atheism. I absolutely love listening to her.
I feel better knowing there are people like you working hard to change the perceptions about atheism in our sadly non-secular society. Keep up the great work!