Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 05.22.2006 /
Esther, a regular participant here, recently visited a Unitarian Universalist service. She has kindly written about her experience for us. (I added some subheadings)
My first UU experience
By a Recovering Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian
May 19, 2006
Inspired by what Hemant had offered and done a tremendous job on visiting and reporting on Christian Churches’ meetings, Jim Henderson had once suggested that maybe Christians should visit some Atheists’ meeting and feel what’s it like. I’ve then asked for some suggestion as of where can I go visit for Atheist do not have “Church” meeting regularly. One of the suggestions from the OTM bloggers was to go visit an UU church.
I’ve never heard of “UU” before so I went on some websites and check them out. Some of you probably still remembered the discomfort I have expressed about just having the thought of participating at an UU meeting. (The uneasiness came from the pro-longed training of my very condemning and conservative Christian Church background) That was like a month and a half ago.
I never expected my fear and discomfort of visiting an UU would be gone so quickly. When looking back at what has happened between Jim’s suggestion and my first visit last Sunday, maybe I did do some “clearing” job with my “recovering journey” in-between. Anyways, I have gone visited this UU Church on Mother’s day Sunday with a peaceful heart and had many interesting discoveries!
Maybe you’d like to know a little bit of my background first before you read my report on this first visit. I’ve just posted an introduction of myself on the discussion board under the “self-introduction” section.
I went with anticipation and positive expectation
I think I’d better clarify my own situation before I start my report. I see myself a little bit different than Hemant (or even TXatheist for he also has done one report). I do not think that I went to this UU Service with a complete “outsider” or “reporter” viewpoint. As the title I chose has stated that I am a “recovering” FEXian; I am actually longing to be with a group of spiritual people who have an open mind. I appreciate the fact that the UU would not hold a particular religious view as the only and most divine truth but will respect each other’s journey of faith. Therefore, although this is truly my very first encounter with a UU community, I went with anticipation and positive expectation.
The particular church I visited was Beacon Unitarian Church
Actually, you can check out this UU Church I visited on their website: Beacon Unitarian church
I chose this one simply for its location. I need to find one that allows me to drop my 2 teenage sons to our Church at 9:30am, and pick them up at 12:30pm. This Beacon Unitarian Church is located 10 minutes away from our Church and its service is 10:30am – 12:00pm. So, it is just perfect! (Just incase some of you might wonder how I spent the 45 minutes before its service started, I brought my hair dryer along and went to the Greyhound Bus station’s washroom and did my hair during that time. I also had enough time to buy my morning coffee! :))
First Impressions
This Beacon Unitarian Church has rented a community centre for their Sunday service during regular school term (Sep. to Jun.). During the summer months, they’ll hold their services at different members’ backyards. There were around 50 people at the service. The setting was simple but elegant. A gentleman was playing beautiful violin music accompanying by a pianist when I walked in (The service had not started). Most of the congregations were adults in their 50’s and above. There were not a single youth and about 7 children. Well, I am the only Asian among the 99% Caucasian congregation. (There was one black lady with her 2 mixed-raced kids) However, this fact did not bother me a single bit. Just thought it was worth reporting.
Having said that, I was very comfortable with the fact that although I knew it clearly that I must be very noticeable as a new comer; I did not feel being looked at or overly welcomed. The lady at the reception table just friendly asked and wrote my name on a sticker name-tag and said “Welcome”. The lady that I happened to sit beside greeted me friendly and chatted with me before the meeting started.
The UU Hymn Book
To my surprise, they have a thick hymn song book and all the songs that they sung were chosen from the book! This hymn book was published by the UU Association. At my Christian Church experience, still singing hymns from hymn book is considered old-fashioned. We are now singing the contemporary Christian songs that are written by Christians living around us NOW. Even to my dismay was to find out that most of the hymns of this UU hymn book were written and composed at the 17th and 18th century! That confirmed one of the facts I learnt from the UU website was that Unitarian Universal group actually has its root from the 17th century. So, this is not a post-modern world thing?!
The hymn book has divided its hymns into many categories like: hope, comfort, marriage, family & friends, Christmas, sorrow & pain…etc. I especially like this topic: “Here and Now”!! I liked it because I don’t think this topic would EVER appear in a “Christian” hymn book! From my FE experience, they de-emphasize here and now and instead focus on there and then.
I also found that at the last section of the hymn book, there are many poems without music that are translation from Buddhism, Confusion, Hinduism, and other religion’s saying. (I did not recall any writing from Muslim, though.) The songs are short and simple. The melody is simple but beautiful. I was touched by most of the songs that they sung there. Although the word “God” was not mentioned in any song, there’s a constant message of understanding and encouragement in every song. If I am to give a topic for their songs, I’ll call them counseling songs or songs of consolation.
Growing up in the FEXians circle where there is only sacred hymns and secular songs, this UU hymn book was an eye-opening experience for me.
Joys and Sorrows
During the UU service, there were 8 to 10 participants who went up to the pulpit and share their joy and sorrow and asked to light up a candle to acknowledge their wish. Many of them shared about their loved ones who got cancer and we could see their worries and pain on their faces. No one stood up and prayed for them, we just listened and watched them lighting the candles.
I felt a great sense of spirituality throughout the service
I guess the major difference between a Christian Church’s service and this UU service is that there is neither “Scripture reading” nor “prayer” time in the latter. There was a meditation period in which I saw majority of the congregation had their eyes closed. Yet, I still felt a great sense of spirituality all through the service. I have to admit that this sense of spirituality was even stronger than when I attended my own Church’s service! (I found this discovery somewhat interesting!)
Let me explain or elaborate a bit on this feeling. I think at a FE Xians’ Church, some of the participants go there not because of their very deliberate choice from their hearts. They go maybe because their parents, their spouses want them to go, or because they want their kids to grow up in a church’s environment and they’d better attend the adult service to kill time. Some of them go every week because of the pressure or the teaching of the Church. They would feel guilty if they don’t go but they do not feel the enthusiasm or the joy when they participate in the service.
However, at a UU, because the believe system is significantly different, (i.e. there’s no pressure or believe that one would not be blessed by God if he/she does not attend church regularly, etc) the participants are there by their very own choices (except the 7 children). I think this genuine authenticity adds to the intensiveness of the atmosphere at the service.
The Annual Board Installation
Another thing I found it very interesting was during their board installation time. (I think it just happen once a year) It was conducted very much like the way my Christian Church would do. Rev. Sather seriously read to them a poem-like reminder. She reminded them to serve selflessly, putting the goal and value of the community in mind all the time. She especially asked them to LISTEN 5 to 6 times. She asked them to listen to others, listen to the congregation, and listen to the small voice in their hearts…
The Message to the Board
I have to admit that the message Rev. Sather gave to the board was significantly different than what a FE Church Pastor would address. In a Christian Church, the Pastor would definitely ask the board to listen to God’s leading, to read God’s word diligently, and to submit to God’s will only…
Yet, again, I have this same feeling as I sang the seemingly “Godless” hymns with them. It is that although “God” was not mentioned at all, I did not feel that God was not there!!
I know that some Christians may get offended by me saying this: in a Christian Church, sometimes because the word “God” is mentioned ALL the time, it becomes “artificial”. It’s like a ritual without substance.
However, here at UU, I found that Rev. Sather’s advice to them was nothing but “Godly” qualities. Instead of an abstract calling to obey God (Which is what?), here she gave concrete details of what a board member is expected to conduct themselves while serving the UU congregation on the board.
The Sermon
The sermon was interesting as well. The topic was “Fragments of perfection”. There actually was a hymn with this name and we sang that song before the sermon. The lyrics of the song was something like people at first got disappointed by their failures in life and later realize that they are actually a fragment of perfection!
Rev. Sather used a legend from Hindu to illustrate her message.
I kind of love the speaker using a legend to illustrate a point valuable in life rather than Christian Church’s sermon using stories in the Bible and treated the story as a documentary piece to study. I like the former because if what’s been told is just a legend, we can then concentrate on the application in life without the need to go through an apologetic analysis!
(Finally) “God” had been mentioned many times in Rev. Sather’s sermon. I don’t want to repeat the legend here. (But it was an interesting story) The reason “God” was said during the sermon was because the main theme of the sermon was that no matter how clever or how well planned we human are, we still need God to make things happen or to make things perfect. In relation to the topic the Pastor has chosen would be that human’s success are only fragments of perfection. Only God is the most perfect one.
This particular UU Church is Deist
I heard that every UU Church is different. It seems that this one is very much having a “deist” view. The topic for this coming Sunday is “Power of belief” which they will split into small groups’ discussion on the importance of knowing what one believes…. I must go again to see how they view things. Apparently this UU Church is just as serious as my Christian Church!!
After the Service
After the service, a lady and Rev. Sather both came to greet me and asked how I knew about them. I briefly shared my story and both of them responded with something like many of them have strong Christian background like me too.
Concluding Thoughts
In conclusion to this first time visit of the UU, I’ve realized the following:
Leave a Reply
Comment by: Julie Marie
1 05/22/06 4:43 AM | Comment Link |Genuine authenticity…that is a blessing to be around!
Comment by: TXatheist
2 05/22/06 5:22 AM | Comment Link |I am so glad you enjoyed UU.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
3 05/22/06 6:57 AM | Comment Link |You nailed it Esther - FEs have been taught to “stare” at sin even though the bible also teaches that we are made in Gods image.
FEs are afraid of the ramifications if acknowledge that Jesus was human (thus all the current controversy with DVC movie)
The real scandal surrounding the story of Jesus is not that he claimed to be god but that God claimed to to human (and acted like it)
Thanks for being brave, interested and for exploring for all of us
Comment by: Eliza
4 05/22/06 7:15 AM | Comment Link |Esther,
Wow!! Great write-up, and it sounds like it was overall a good experience. I was especially interested in 2 of your observations:
Those are very interesting differences. Do you think you would have sensed these differences if you had gone 1-2 years ago? Or, do you think you notice and appreciate these differences now because you have been ready for a change, a different church than your old one? Thanks!
Comment by: damannion
5 05/22/06 8:18 AM | Comment Link |Esther,
Thanks for the write-up. Until recently, I considered myself a UU. I was particularly struck by your comment that the spirituality was stronger than your own Church. One of the reasons I rarely attend UU services anymore is I don’t feel any spirituality in them. I forgot that every congregation is different, so I think I’ll check out some I haven’t attended before.
doreen
Comment by: Ir
6 05/22/06 8:21 AM | Comment Link |Thanks for sharing your experience with us, Esther. I found it very interesting, especially since I have a similar background (since young adulthood). Also I have had a little contact with UU and it was similarly positive to your experience. I found it refreshing compared to what I was used to in the world of Evangelical Christianity.
When I was having some problems at my church occasioned by to my recent mental illness, I e-mailed the minister of the local UU church and received a very nice reply from him. After that I had a little more e-mail back and forth and then I went to talk with him one day. He took almost an hour to talk with me and it was an encouraging, helpful time for me.
I attended a four week course shortly after that taught by him at his church about Jesus (presenting a very ‘liberal’ view of Jesus and using a book by Robert Funk of the Jesus Seminar).
I wrote about that course for the local newspaper.
When he moved I attended his leaving party hosted by the church. The people I met that day were very friendly and welcoming.
In spite of this I’ve never been to a UU service. When I was going to church regularly that would have conflicted. Now I’m not going to church I’m not eager to jump back into attending any Sunday services regularly. In other words I’m not opposed to attending a UU service per se; I’m just not attending any at the moment.
(Except that next weekend, because of having visitors, I might visit a church with them)
Comment by: Steve
7 05/22/06 9:55 AM | Comment Link |I have attended two UU congregations, and I guess my experience isn’t as positive (noting, of course, that all congregations are distinct). In both cases, there was an excessive amount of politics being discussed. Politics in a religious setting, whether conservative or liberal, drives me crazy because it implies that to be welcome or a “true believer” you also have to have these various views…
Second, and this only happened at the second congregation, was disrespect to other traditions. In particular, some of you may know of the Doxology, it starts, “Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty…” well this congregation sang a song to the same music but with the lyrics “Coffee, coffee, coffee…” before adjorning for snacks. It just felt very disrespectful to me.
Comment by: Esther
8 05/22/06 10:11 AM | Comment Link |Hi, everyone,
Thanks for reading my review and giving me all these response.
Today is a public holiday in BC, Canada (It’s Queen Victoria’s birthday!). I have guests over my home so I will be busy til’ night.
I’m sorry that I will have to respond to you all very late tonight, but I’ll answer Eliza’s questions.
I went again yesterday to the same UU Church and have more interesting stuff to share.
Please check in tomorrow if you have time. :-)
Comment by: TXatheist
9 05/22/06 10:54 AM | Comment Link |Steve,
Would you consider yourself more conservative or more liberal socially and politically?
Comment by: Steve
10 05/22/06 11:46 AM | Comment Link |TX,
There-in lies the problem. I’m pro-gun, pro-personal responsibility, pro-small government (at the national level), pro-fiscal restraint, pro-private education, pro-freedom, anti-Clinton (Hillary). So I must be a conservative? But I’m also pro-abortion, pro-drugs (legalization), anti-GW, pro-Clinton (Bill), pro-involved government (state and local), anti-Iraq war. So I must be liberal? (Actually, the closest category I’ve found, and my registered party, is Libertarian.)
I guess the point is that regardless of whether the preacher is agreeing with me or not, I believe that spirituality contains a Truth which transcends politics and our individual views on the world; in any diverse group of believers for any path, there are bound to be conservatives, liberals, and freaks like me. As soon as political position is taken, no matter what it is, people are being alienated for no good reason.
Comment by: Lisa W.
11 05/22/06 12:46 PM | Comment Link |steve said:
I found this to be true at a UU service I attended in Seattle a long time ago. I was rather confused by the pulpit used as a soapbox for politics and then the use of old hymn books for singing. It was strange to me.
But, the people I attended with are longtime UUers and are some of the most socially engaged people I know. HUGE hearts. Their behavior is very ‘christ-like’ to me.
Comment by: Lisa W.
12 05/22/06 12:51 PM | Comment Link |Esther - great review BTW. thanks so much for letting us into your experience.
Comment by: Sam
13 05/22/06 12:57 PM | Comment Link |Ester,
I am a UU. I have been for about six years. I can explain the lack of youth and children. Most of my UU experience has been as a Youth, which is a different kind of community all together. During the service most churches run an RE(religous education) program which cover a variety of programs,(like different religeons around the world, the seven principles, and a sexual education program (our whole lives) for eigth and ninth graders.) The youth were most likley at youth group. Youth group is based on youth empowerment, teaching the youth who will be our leaders how to lead for themselves, most youth groups are such a community that they only attend the main service when they are asked to do so, frankly the service bores most teenagers. The UUA strives for “whole life” ministry in a sense having something for everyone.
Comment by: NCxian
14 05/22/06 1:14 PM | Comment Link |This is so interesting, Esther. Thanks for reporting!
Comment by: TXatheist
15 05/22/06 1:24 PM | Comment Link |Steve,
I don’t know but here’s what we agree on.
[quote]There-in lies the problem. I’m pro-gun, pro-personal responsibility, pro-small government (at the national level), pro-fiscal restraint,[b]removed[/b] , pro-freedom, anti-Clinton (Hillary). So I must be a conservative? But I’m also pro-abortion, pro-drugs (legalization), anti-GW, pro-Clinton (Bill), pro-involved government (state and local), anti-Iraq war. So I must be liberal?
I only took out one thing, pro-vouchers/privatization of schools and I’ve never had those issues at my UU but most of the people I’ve discussed issues at my UU and most agree with me or at least see the middle ground. We are in general terms the same except on school finance it seems:)
Comment by: isaone
16 05/22/06 3:14 PM | Comment Link |Thank you Esther for your insightful and open review. As a long time UU my only concern is that we are able to consistently live up to your portrayal. I certainly agree with you that true spirituality cannot be forced on anyone. I also personally appreciate the opportunities at my church to hear readings from all points of view (and we have had several Moslem reading in my church).
It is certainly true that while all UU congregations aspire to be open to all points of view, our level of success in reaching that goal varies. Many congregants have come to us from poisonous previous church experience and have a much easier time accepting a gay transsexual than someone who believes in a literal heaven and hell. Even those of us who did not have bad church experiences such as myself feel that we are under attack by those who would make this country a theocracy and can fall prey to a lack of listening. While the level of political discussion can get tiresome at times, I see it as a natural outgrowth of the desire for social action. To achieve the kind of justice that we desire we must engage in the political process and do so more successfully than we are currently. You may have not noticed it yet but there is also a permanent conflict in all UU churches. Due to the extremely wide points of view of the parishioners and their general high level of education and opinions of themselves there is often “sprited discussion” at all levels between the various constituents (Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, Atheists, Jews, …..) .
PS One indication of the level of ‘Christianity’ of a UU congregation is to note if it has descended from the Universalist or the Unitarian church prior to the merger. I have found that congregations which were originally Universalist retain much more of their Christian heritage.
Comment by: Karen
17 05/22/06 4:15 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for your review, Esther. After nearly 40 years of regular church attendance, I am very happy to stay at home with my Sunday paper these days. However, it is nice to know that if I ever wish to rejoin a ‘faith community’ at some point, there’s a place I could participate that would probably feel quite comfortable. Nice job.
Comment by: NCxian
18 05/22/06 4:19 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for the insider information, isaone. That’s the kind of thing that can be so useful, but that you can’t know unless you’ve been there. If this were the travelogue, your comment would be like, “where the locals eat!”.
Comment by: Marty
19 05/22/06 7:40 PM | Comment Link |Isaone - your comments in 16 came across as dialogue and was helpful to all of us. Thanx.
Comment by: Esther
20 05/23/06 9:39 AM | Comment Link |Thank you everyone for your kind words and response.
First, let me answer Eliza’s questions:
These were very good questions. They made me think and reflect…
I think I will not be able to come to this understanding even in the beginning of this year!
I have to admit that this diablog interactions indeed have brought me out to a totally new horizon! ( in which I’m very thankful)
I agree that this diablog did not change my perpectives. I was already having tremendous doubts to my old religious system to begin with. However, the pressure, the condemnation and the brainwash (from my background) was still haunting me from within. It’s like I want to rebel but the old system is still spinning in auto mode. (Yes, that sometimes do drives me crazy) I now see this diablog experience to me is like a process to uninstall my old system and reinstall a new one.
This is why I said that before the uninstallment, I would feel uneasy, confused, and maybe even offended when I join this UU Church.
Just this past Sunday I went again. Interestingly enough they are having a group sharing on “The Power of Beliefs”. The 4 questions they’ve listed were very meaningful that I’d like to share with you. I think whether you a C or A, it’s good to reflect on them.
a)Where do your beliefs come from? How did you form them?
b) How have your beliefs changed over time?
c) How have your beliefs influenced your life and experience?
d) Is it important to Challenge your beliefs?
Many of the UU congregation shared (including myself). Now, that came a part which I was a little uneasy. It was when some of them expressed their negative thoughts with Christianity and Jesus and many in the congregation laugh and giggle in agreement.
I guess this is one of the reasons this blog encourage us all to expose ourselves to a completely different belief system and feel what’s it like. Yes, we Xians when in our safe circle do make fun or make negative comments about other religions or Atheists. And that would make people who are with other religions or are atheists felt disrespectful.
One thought on some of your experience with UU were that they mingle many political issues in it. I’m thinking, is it because you are in the States and I’m in Canada? I found that the political pressure is very different up here.
One revision with the UU hymn book.
There’re also writings from Islam and Native wisdoms.
In closing, I’d like to share with you a poem we (the UU Church) have read together last Sunday. I found that very touching and thought provoking.
It Matters What We Believe
Some beliefs are like walled gardens. They encourage exclusiveness, and the feeling of being especially priviledged.
Other beliefs are expansive and lead the way
into wider and deeper sympathies.
Some beliefs are like shadows, clouding children’s days with fears of unknown calamities.
Other beliefs are like sunshine, blessing children with the warmth of happiness.
Some beliefs are divisive, seperating the saved from the unsaved, friends from enemies.
Other beliefs are bonds in a world community, where sincere differences beautify the pattern.
Some beliefs are like blinders, shutting off the power to choose one’s own direction.
Other beliefs are like gateways opening wide vistas for exploration.
Some beliefs weaken a person’s selfhood. They blight the growth of resourcefulness.
Other beliefs nurture self-confidence and enrich the feeling of personal worth.
Some beliefs are rigid, like the body of death, impotent in a changing world.
Other beliefs are pliable, like the young sapling, ever growing with the upward thrust of life.
-SOPHIA LYON FAHS
Comment by: Marty
21 05/23/06 5:27 PM | Comment Link |Esther - thanx for sharing that poem and thanx for how you handled reflecting on how it felt when some of these people were not respecting Christian beliefs. The fact that you not only didn’t like what they were doing - but it gave you greater feeling and insight into when Christians do the reverse shows your own maturity.
It ocurs to me how very much my own beliefs have evolved over the years. My sense is that most if not everyones beliefs are dramatically different today than they were in previous time in our lives. That then seems to leave me with two choices - I can choose to believe that I have now finally arrived and now have the absolute truth - or I can choose to believe that my beliefs will continue to evolve. I choose the latter and don’t quite understand how others have chosen the former.
Comment by: Esther
22 05/23/06 6:55 PM | Comment Link |Thanks, Marty.
Actually, having to join the UU meeting and seeing quite some people here (like TXatheist) are part of the UU community made me wonder. Maybe some of you who have been or are currently a UU can give me some lights.
Since a UU does not necessary have a view of God, or even if they believe in a God, they do not have certain “doctrine” or “orthodox” with their God. Then, why do they see the need to gather together regularly? I mean the meeting is not just a social gathering, but a formal and spiritual type of service. What are the purposes?
And Marty, I also have been thinking about your involvement in the interfaith org. (I’m so glad that you’ve written here so I can address to you) Maybe you’d like to create a new topic on the DB in answering me. (Pls first let me know under which category have you posted your answer, though)
My question is simply what is this “interfaith” movement, what was it’s original history, and where is it leading towards?
And could you explain to me why do you get involve? What are the beliefs that lead you there?
Thanks for sharing.
Comment by: Marty
23 05/24/06 7:48 AM | Comment Link |Esther - my response is at
http://off-the-map.org/ebayatheist/viewtopic.php?p=4772#4772
Thanx for asking - it made me think about it.
Comment by: TXatheist
24 05/24/06 9:26 AM | Comment Link |Esther,
There are RE(religious education) classes for kids to teach them about religions. The topic of the day is usually something you can learn a lesson from. It’s also a way to unite you in a social gathering as you said. Friends, coffee and sharing religious ideas. The two closest people I talk to there are an agnostic and theist. They both believe in some type of afterlife. They unite to have hands on housing in a “coordinated” effort. As humans we are social beings and for those of us who don’t believe in god or jesus it’s a nice alternative.
Comment by: Esther
25 05/24/06 3:26 PM | Comment Link |TX, I guess I have never expressed this to you. I truly admire you for the fact that eventhough you consider yourself an atheist, you still join the UU Church regularly. To me that showed a deeper and noble side of human spirit.
May I ask you further, TX, since we’ve started this conversation.
Do you join this group mainly because they have this “housing project”?
If they don’t have this project, would you still join them as a nice alternative?
Maybe I should poke in more if you don’t mind, TX. :-)
It seems to me that you are pretty strong in going against Christianity (Or should I say the FE’s believe that everyone needs to be converted / saved). But you seems to be okay in relating to agnostic and theist. Does it mean that you are actually open to different beliefs (just strongly oppose to the rigid and narrowed view of the FE’s),
or you still hold on tight to your atheist’s view but do not mind to be friend and work with agnostic and theist?
Comment by: TXatheist
26 05/25/06 12:50 AM | Comment Link |Esther,
You are exactly right. I don’t mind xianity, I despise literally, fundamental, and only christianity is true types. I think the world of Bishop John Spong. I admire Thomas Jefferson for rewriting the bible taking out the supernatural. I’d still be UU even without the hands on housing. I like to do hands on stuff. Now when I go to church I can hear the lecture through speakers but during the lecture I set up the coffee, water, lemonade, tables, chairs and most importantly I look for a lady named Ruth. Ruth is 87 and she has no kids or family. She cherishes my son almost as much as I do. When she sees him she actually sheds a tear when they meet and when we leave. I can’t begin to tell you how giving her that feeling makes me feel. I think it’s something that would make my mom proud and I love my mom dearly. I don’t mind other people having a different view, I have a problem when someone insists I think they are right and we all would be better if their belief was the one we all shared. I think pluralism is a great attribute that the US has.
Comment by: Esther
27 05/25/06 1:09 AM | Comment Link |U have a beautiful heart, TX.
Comment by: isaone
28 05/28/06 5:38 AM | Comment Link |Esther I intended to answer your question about why Atheists go to church but I can see little point in it. Txatheist has written my posts for me (LOL). For me it is just as he has said, the community, the RE program for my kids (although they have now stopped going), and in addition the choir.
As an Atheist I do have to work on occasion to redefine commonly used terms in order to relate to the service in a way that works for me. For example the word God for me (when used in my church) is simply shorthand for the entire universe and the entirely natural laws which support and inform it’s existence. I also go to church because it supports my ’spirituality’. There is, however nothing supernatural in the term since I do not believe I have any separate soul or spirit as is commonly defined. I believe it is one of the great conceits of our egos that we believe that we are consciously aware of everything that is going on with our bodies. It is well proven that our voluntary thought and actions are only a tiny part of the chemical and electrical activity in our bodies. For me a spiritual activity such as meditation is something which allows me to get in contact with the portion of my brain/body that contains important information which cannot be communicated verbally. After all, the development and use of language is very recent in our evolutionary history so it would be silly to imagine that all significant items could be communicated with words.
Comment by: Ir
29 05/28/06 12:29 PM | Comment Link |That’s awesome, TX. It’s neat to hear how you help out at your church and also bring some happiness to an old lady by sharing your son with her.
Comment by: Esther
30 05/29/06 12:43 AM | Comment Link |Isaone,
Thanks for explaining to me.
Growing up in a Christian minister’s home. I found it very strange when presented with an atheist’ view. (pls don’t mind me saying this)
What I meant was that I am not at all accustom to thinking that there’s no God, no Creator, no high power out there.
I’m thinking, could it be exactly the opposite for a person who grew up in an atheist’ home? When he/she is presented with a Deist view, would he/she feels equally “strange”?
However, I find it interesting as well. I think there is no harm by learning about all perpectives. Maybe there’s harm if one is prevented from any other exposure.
PS. Today was a very interesting day for me. I joined once again the UU service and get closer with the people there…
Then I joined in the evening my FE Church celebration of its 25th Anniversary worship!
Many thoughts have crossed my mind….
Comment by: Ir
31 05/29/06 4:49 AM | Comment Link |Hi Esther,
I’m glad you’ve been enjoying the UU church enough to keep going back.
I’d be interested to read some of the thoughts you had after attending both churches in one day.
Comment by: isaone
32 05/29/06 8:19 AM | Comment Link |Esther I am sure that there are some similarities with the rare Atheist child but not at all the same experience. Our culture is so strongly Theist that even Atheist children get socialized to be Theists. I once had a fascinating conversation with a gay friend when she explained that even gays sometimes have anti gay habits unconsciously acquired from the culture that they have to deal with. Also in my UU church the RE program covers all the major religions so my children are certainly aware of the basics of many belief systems. This was one of the reasons I started going back to church. I think it is important for my kids to learn about what is available so that they can then choose their own path when they get out on their own.
Comment by: treydot
33 06/20/06 4:40 PM | Comment Link |UU principles
Ester, Sorry for coming onto this conversation rather late, but I would like to offer some comments. 1st, thankyou for sharing your experience in a tone that fosters a respectful conversation. I appreciate that.
I am a member of 1st Universalist Church of Denver (A UU Congrgation)which has about 550 members. We joined primarily because we wanted to join a community that would help support/shape/reinforce the moral development of our children beyond what we, as parents, could do alone - without(what I believe) the excess baggage of doctrinal belief required by Christian or other religious traditions. As you probably know UU does not have a Creed one must believe to be a member. This separates UUs from most other religions. Instead, we’ve adopted principles : that serve as a guide for living.
I was brought-up in a Lutheran congregation - which I remember as a loving and, comfortable place to be. However, over years I became skeptical of much of the doctrinal belief of the church - especially on living life for the hereafter rather than the here now (in a be-here-now sense). For example, the Apostle’s Creed only recites believe in a supernatural birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus and does not even make one mention as to how Jesus lived his life or the importance of trying to adapt lessons from Jesus’ life to or own. For the longest time, I held religion (name your brand) at arm’s length for reasons far to long to describe here.
In our first visit to what became our church, just as you described, there was a strong sense of welcome, involvement and commitment shared between people attending the service.
Regarding UU congregations/sermons being politically oriented: Most UUs are committed to social justice and fairness. It is probably difficult to advocate for social justice issues without sounding somewhat political. I am sure that one would experience more or less of a political dialog depending upon the congregation one visits.
One interesting aspect of our community is the number of members who were actually ordained ministers in other faith traditions. We have members who at one time in their career were Southern Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian and I think Presbyterian ministers, whose spiritual or intellectual path brought them to UU. I enjoy talking with these members as I have much to gain from their experience. We also have a relatively large number of members who are from scientific and medical fields — many who are probably devout atheists. One polarity in our church is those seeking a spiritual path and those seeking and intellectual understanding. Fortunately, UU faith traditions accommodates both.
I think you will hear criticism of Christianity from some members beyond what would be expected from a community that values religious diversity. I do think that this, as others have said, is born of reaction to individuals’ experience with their own religious experience as most UUs come from a Christian traditions. I think to that the mainstream Christian’s failure to address the extremism offered by some fundamentalist religuosu groups have also contributed some criticism. As UUs, I think we should hold to our principle of respect and dignity for all and be aware of our individual biases. I also see where such bias’ can arise. Earlier this year, I arrived late to church with my two daughters, age 6 and 11. To my surprise, there were protesters from some right wing fundamentalist Christian church picketing my church - which they had surrounded. About 25 protesters had erected billboards with obscene graphics condemning our denomination and homosexuality (we are a welcoming church). I am sure they were also protesting birth control and a woman’s choice of conscience and control of her own body. As I walked across the parking lot, some these protesters where haranguing me and my daughters, shouting over a bull horn, that if I took my kids into my church, they would go to hell. You can imagine my complete and utter surprise and concern for my daughters. I ended up using this as an opportunity to teach my children that it takes resilience and inner strength to hold your beliefs and convictions even when someone else may attack or bully you because of what you believe.
Finally, you are right about UU’s historical view that humans are born innocent, rather than being born into a veil of mortal sin. The UU tradition views that people should live their life by their deeds, not by a confession of faith. As such UU tradition values what Confucius, the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Christ, Mohammad and others have taught about living a moral, just and loving life.
Comment by: treydot
34 06/20/06 9:18 PM | Comment Link |Bythe way, Here are the Principles I refferred to above:
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote:
The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.