Posted by TXatheist on: 05.24.2006 /
We’ve come here to learn about getting to common ground. What I have always thought in the back of my mind is what will happen when Muslim families gets to be the majority in a certain part of the US. Let’s say Dallas, Texas gets a public high school that has 55% muslim students. When they say the Pledge of Allegiance one kid alters the Pledge and says “one nation, under Allah, indivisible…” . I think this will give Christians a real insight what it’s like to be a minority. I’m just using this is as an example.
A second example would be where a public school allows a 1 minute of silence. During that minute some kids may pray including Muslims getting on the floor or a mat, facing Mecca and bowing. I don’t think we are really too far off in reality from this happening.
I’m currently reading, “Why I am not a Muslim” by Ibn Warraq. I just found a critique from a Muslim scholar of the book. The scholar was Catholic and converted to Islam.
Comment by: Ir
1I think that’s a fascinating question, TX. It’s easy to take for granted being in the majority without realizing that’s what we’re doing. And then if things turn around one day and we aren’t in the majority anymore it will be a very rude awakening.
I’d like to see true freedom of worship and not worshipping, because then it wouldn’t make so much difference who is in the majority and who is in the minority.
Comment by: Ir
2…re: learning about Islam, I have a Karen Armstrong book I should read. I have a Christian book I bought a long time ago about Islam but I don’t trust it ;). I do trust Karen Armstrong because she seems to research things well (if I shouldn’t trust her then I’m open to hearing why not)
Comment by: Cully
3In a nation founded on religious freedom this shouldn’t be a problem. As long as everyone in the sandbox plays nice that is. The Christian majority in America has been complacent about religious freedom because basically it just meant… them. Everyone (well… most everyone) that they were granting religious freedom to were just variations on themselves, and their own beliefs. Ingraining Christianity so deeply into the American government over the years is going to be the problem though. Ignoring fundamentalist extremes, here is a group of people that, at their core are not that different from Christians. They grew out of the same religious traditions, but split somewhere along the way. Unfortunately, both now think the other is incorrect. So in a nation that THINKS it is a Christian nation, even though it’s not, mixing in a competing religion is going to cause some ripples. If this was 1776 and the two had co-existed here all along I don’t think it would be a problem. In fact I think it may have been better for all of us. I think the two religions may have kept each other in check, preventing them from writing laws too centric to the other religion. That would have left things in a better position for those of us who don’t want ANY religion in our law. Don’t you think? ANYWAY… Now the two are going to have to learn to coexist in a country where one has had the upper hand for centuries, and the other is unfortunately represented by their fringe in the minds of most Americans. It’s not an ideal situation, to say the least. How to handle it? Haven’t a clue.
Comment by: Karen
4Actually, this is already happening in some areas of the country - I believe Michigan in particular has a large Muslim minority population. One of the issues that came up was that the local mosque wanted to broadcast the 5x/daily call to prayer on loudspeakers, like they do in majority Muslim countries, and some in the non-Muslim population objected. I can’t remember the details of how they resolved that situation, but as for me, I’d be very bothered by a loudspeaker blasting prayers at me five times a day. I would consider that noise pollution, to be honest.
Comment by: Cully
5Uhm… yeah. That would piss me off. BIG time. I have a hard enough time dealing with subway “preachers” who decide to oppress me by yelling about Jesus on the subway. Especially now that NYC in it’s wisdom has made it illegal to move between cars while the train is in motion. I can’t even move to another car to escape anymore.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
6TX I agree that it may not be far off. For anyone who has lived in another country where Religions are open/public and mixed this is a funny question since they all go at it simultaneously and basicall get along - Ihave spoken in a number of churches in India and when the muslim call to prayer comes on in the loudspeaker right outside the window we stop and wait like a plane is passing over or we talk louder.
I read The Trouble with Islam Today by Irshad Manji a Lesbian/Muslim/Journalist- very helpful
Comment by: NCxian
7Ir said:
I read her book A History of God and I would say it is a book that changed my way of thinking about a lot of things religious. I also like the way she thoroughly researches, and I find her tone toward various traditions to be respectful and open. I need to reread the Islam part of A History of God. I read it before 9/11 and at that time that section seemed like a lot of long and boring detail, after I figured out her general idea. I doubt I would find it so now!
Comment by: Julie Marie
8another day, another author to read.
Comment by: Jule Marie
9one way the call to prayer could be accomplished without interrupting everyone else in the waking world is to issue pagers, have a memberlist, and buzz the faithful 5x/day. theres got to be technology out there that allows you to buzz the 100 or so in your mosque at the touch of a button, i would think.
Comment by: Marty
10The Islamic Society of Santa Barbara people (the men that is) have integrated very well into our Interfaith group. They put on the program at one of our meetings - including feeding the 200+ of us with Muslim food (the only time there was a good turnout from the Muslim women) and demonstrating their call to prayer on stage (about 40 of them)and the Iman speaking on and answering questions about the Muslim faith. Last time a Muslim board member (30 year old very outstanding young man - and incredibly open and knowledgeable) chaired the meeting that was focused on the Sounds of the different faiths followed by a panel discussion. The panelists were extremely attentive to and respectful of one another. At 8:00 PM the overall group took a break and the Muslims went into another room where the Iman led them through evening prayers. Those of us who wanted to watch were very welcome. I videod it.
The Iman now looks to talk with me and tells jokes in the forums. The outstanding young Muslim man I am getting to know a bit one on one. We have had him dialogue at our Presbyterian Church twice in two months - the first was so well received. We now have a relationship that is close enough that I can ask him - where were the Muslim women at our last Interfaith meeting and tell him that I am recommending that one of the meeting focus on the womens perspective on their faiths - put on by only women.
Just like I have learned so much from a group I didn’t understand - Atheists - and have now gotten to know Atheists both virtually and in person - I am having somewhat of a similar experience now connecting with Muslims and learning that we too can appreciate and respect each other.
I know that I am missing the bigger picture that TXatheist is calling our attention to but I can feel pretty overwhelmed and get a feeling of hopelessness if I move in that direction. I think that if I and others can focus on connecting one on one in a sincere and friendly way - maybe I/we am/are doing what I/we can to make a positive difference.
I am not one who is drawn to focusing on fear - be it from the Muslims or the Christian end times. Maybe I should be - but I choose to try to stay focused on what I can do. Maybe I am the OTM poster boy :-) because I choose to try to stay focused on the doable things in my life.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
11Not sure they would go for this but very funny idea
Comment by: Julie Marie
12When that comes up I believe we will finally move back to One Nation, Indivisible.
It will probably be a fractious time, but I predict that will be the sort of thing that will be the beginning of the end of fundy christianity. because reasonable people (and they are out there, I know they are!) will look and see not so much difference between christian fundamentalist action and islamic fundamentalist action. That may be the eye opener.
Comment by: Julie Marie
13I should say thought process rather than action. Christian fundys aren’t flying into buildings. Sorry everyone.
Comment by: Julie Marie
14Marty, I wouldn’t have believed this was possible. Thanks for sharing this story!
I read it, and my evangelical background reared up and it made me wonder — when that man came to speak at your church twice, how many were hoping that he would “find truth” there? And in the next instant, a wash of relief that I am no longer bound by such concerns.
A lady I know used to go door to door inviting neighbors to her house for Tea and discussion ofchristianity. She told me some muslim women came once, and when she asked them why they came, they said they were curious about her home. “American’s don’t often open their homes.” Made me think. Simple do-able hospitality would be neighborhood bbq in summertime. Just to get to know people!
Comment by: Marty
15Julie Marie writes”
I don’t really know for sure - but you can often tell by the way people ask questions. Some ask questions in ways that they are actually trying to teach/preach/convert rather than to listen. I don’t remember any questions that seemed to me to be other than to learn - while at the same time - I am aware that there are those in the congregation that have a more fundamental bent - and at least were judging this guy in their own mind.
I can tell you for sure, if you were the Muslim (or before that Jewish) person hosted by this minister - you would feel completely respected and appreciated - and never for a moment any indication that the world would be better if only he could convert these people. I compare this to how Jim treated Hemant.