Being in Church with Doubts

Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 05.30.2006 /

My personal experience of being in church Saturday evening was a lot like how it was the last few years when I went to church every week. That’s why I decided to write about this separately rather than include it in my Vineyard church service comments.

After I had serious doubts about the foundations of my faith, I looked hard for ways church could continue to be a positive experience for me.

What was positive for me about church

What was negative for me about church

Visiting a service again after not attending church for eight months

I revisited my thoughts about how a church service could be a positive experience for me once I had volunteered to attending a service with my cousin-in-law and husband.

At the service I used the worship time to reflect, as well as listening to the words out of curiosity. And I sang some of the time – why not? I enjoy singing sometimes. I wasn’t moved emotionally by the worship because I had made the decision a while ago that I couldn’t risk seeking emotional comfort from anyone whose existence and character I was as unsure about as God.

When the pastor spoke, I listened and thought about anything she said that might apply to me. For instance, she talked about wrong attitudes in relationships – I could relate to that since it was about me and others rather than me and God. She asked questions like “Is pride an issue? Are you thinking ‘my ideas are better than yours – I can do this better than you””? I thought seriously about whether such things were issues for me.

This thinking didn’t have the emotional component it used to have when my main motivation to be a better person was to please God. In those days, if I fell short of good behavior I thought I was capable of, I would be sorry that I had disappointed God. Now I still consider whether I am doing the best I can, but I appreciate not having so much emotional overlay.

Will I go again?

Going on Saturday was an interesting and positive experience for me personally, overall. I didn’t regret my decision to accompany my cousin-in-law and husband in visiting a church service while they were here. But it didn’t create any desire in me to start going to church regularly again.

For me, attending a church service is too much like buying a whole meal which includes significant amounts of food I don’t like. Then I have to go through and pick out the few bits I do like and throw the rest away. I’d rather buy the food I like item by item and leave the whole meals for people who like everything in them to purchase.

Also - it’s one thing to visit a church once and choose not to share what’s complicated about me. It’s quite another to think about being part of a community and not being able to be myself because it would be too complicated and awkward. I’m trying to avoid being in that situation again.

13 Responses to "Being in Church with Doubts"

  • Comment by: NCxian

    1 05/30/06 12:39 PM | Comment Link |

    I would think it would be a liberating feeling to know that you don’t have to pretend to be anything you are not, and to know that you don’t have to belong to a group where you have to pretend. That doesn’t sound like where (physically and mentally) you came from 8 months ago! Maybe we can say you’ve been “born again”? ;) .

  • Comment by: Julie Marie

    2 05/30/06 2:13 PM | Comment Link |

    Telling the truth was so complicated at church. Most of the time I didn’t try to tell anyone about my doubts. It was so complicated to explain and it wasn’t a fun conversation at all. So that meant I went along with what others said and said things that fitted in the ROAA (range of acceptable answers).

    I can well imagine you have little tolerance for holding back “unacceptable” questions, answers, or attitudes anymore!

    The church’s response to these inaccurate and negative statements was to treat the symptoms:the fear and worry the wrong thinking produced, rather than the problem itself: the wrong thinking that led to the inaccurate statements

    .

    The thing that strikes me these days is the thought that belief in God is the only thing that makes people want to lead moral lives. And the next step: the power of God is the only thing that keeps us from utter depravity. That we are utter slaves to sin. Its such an extreme position to take. We all have our transcendant parts, our good parts, and our tarnished parts. Look at kids - sometimes they are charming and wonderful, and sometimes, well…they aren’t so charming. One of the big challenges in parenting is to teach the kids to self regulate. So then they grow up and forget all that training, and assume that only the power of God keeps them leading upright lives? That is something that really bothers me now. I can well imagine it REALLY exasperates the atheists here!

  • Comment by: Ir

    3 05/30/06 4:13 PM | Comment Link |

    NCxian - I’m not sure if I’d use those words ;) but I would agree that change and growth in my life didn’t stop just because I started having doubts.

    Julie Marie - yes, indeed. I think most Evangelical Christians don’t know many people who aren’t Christians because otherwise I don’t know how they could continue to believe they have an exclusive [supernaturally granted] ability to do good that no-one else has.

  • Comment by: Eliza

    4 05/30/06 9:53 PM | Comment Link |

    Also - it’s one thing to visit a church once and choose not to share what’s complicated about me. It’s quite another to think about being part of a community and not being able to be myself because it would be too complicated and awkward. I’m trying to avoid being in that situation again.

    Being part of a community was a big part of what people said they liked about OAWC (once a week church) & it was a big part of what Hemant-the-atheist noticed. But clearly there can be downsides, including the interpersonal dynamics that any group develops. And I imagine the downsides could be more of an issue, or at least be noticeable earlier, in a small church or one that emphasizes interpersonal connections, maybe like this one.

    For example, you mentioned in your writeup that you were asked your name from the front, in front of everyone (if I read correctly), as “…I don’t remember your name?” So, then, from that moment, everyone there that night, including the 2 senior pastors, knows your name! Welcoming, but could also feel smothering - too much, too soon, unasked for.

    Which reminded me of the Church of the Reconciler, which someone mentioned on this site weeks or months ago. Their website describes them as welcoming people of all incomes, races, and lifestyles - and their vision page comments that “Very few churches successfully make the commitment to be multicultural and interracial. This commitment presents us with never-ending challenges. It means, among other things, that we can never ‘get it right.’”

    Which made me wonder whether a congregation committed to having obvious and meaningful diversity - a significant mixing of races and/or a wide range of socioeconomics, for example - might be less likely to have some group members who tend to judge or exclude people based on less obvious differences. Either because they don’t want to stay in a congregation like that, or because the group has to be aware constantly of finding common ground around the obvious differences (sound familiar ;) ). That takes energy, and also gives people the practical experience of interacting with others not quite like them - but with enough in common that they want to stick it out and make it work.

    Maybe that’s all nonsense - I dunno. It would be interesting to find out more about the issues people find irksome in very diverse churches compared with more homogeneous ones…

  • Comment by: Jim Henderson

    5 05/30/06 11:50 PM | Comment Link |

    It seemed like every time I went I would hear something negative about people outside the church

    Why should a church propogate these kinds of views when the founder of our movement exhibited an identity with those people who were outsiders?

    I want to follow Jesus - not religion - it is broken - period

  • Comment by: Ir

    6 05/31/06 6:24 AM | Comment Link |

    Eliza - see what I wrote on the church survey comments about the different countries the staff of the Vineyard church come from. I don’t know how intentional this is.

    Jim - yes, I think it is broken in various ways. Maybe what is broken can be mended. I’m not sure.

    To be fair, perhaps ‘hearing something negative about people outside the church’ was a particular issue in the church I most recently attended regularly. It is also a particular issue with some Christian ministries I’ve heard on the radio.

    Now I think about it, I don’t recall hearing anything negative about people outside the church in the Saturday Vineyard service.

    That’s impressive considering that they’re currently having a serious difference of opinion with their neighbors:

    Vineyard neighbors protest expansion

  • Comment by: julie marie

    7 05/31/06 6:37 AM | Comment Link |

    Jim - yes, I think it is broken in various ways. Maybe what is broken can be mended. I’m not sure.

    my postings will probably have a bitter edge to them today, so i’ll keep them to a minimun for everyones benefit. But this is what I want to say:

    maybe the armageddon type stuff siamang and jayson have been posting about is not a bad thing. at least it blows the cover of gentility off raw ugly agendas. if we’re gonna wrestle with something controlling, ugly, hateful, and destructive, lets call it what it is, and deal with it.

    rant over. i’m sitting the rest of the day out.

  • Comment by: Ir

    8 05/31/06 6:59 AM | Comment Link |

    Julie Marie, I think you must have taken the red pill. ;)

  • Comment by: julie marie

    9 05/31/06 7:08 AM | Comment Link |

    yeah, something like that. its not going down easy.

  • Comment by: Eliza

    10 05/31/06 7:17 AM | Comment Link |

    …like I did on Monday (on the Discussion Board).

    In case anyone is wondering (maybe new readers who heard about the site from the article about Hemant in Charisma magazine - the Armageddon theocracy stuff Julie is referring to is here on the Discussion Board. (You need to register before you can enter the DB, but it’s easy and there are no strings attached.)

  • Comment by: Bob

    11 05/31/06 10:26 AM | Comment Link |

    Jim wrote:

    Why should a church propogate these kinds of views when the founder of our movement exhibited an identity with those people who were outsiders?

    I want to follow Jesus - not religion - it is broken - period

    I agree wholeheartedly but I have a question for the As and religion-rejecting Cs out there: Are you (or can you) draw a distinction between returning to church vs. returning to God?
    I think the first place people look when they become interested in spiritual matters is a church which, in many cases, is religion. Oftentimes they figure this out only after a significant portion of their lives have been invested.

    If religion is “broke”, how does one investigate spirituality apart from it?

  • Comment by: Ir

    12 05/31/06 10:43 AM | Comment Link |

    Bob, I’ve posted your two questions on the discussion board here:

    The distinction between church and spirituality

    Let’s discuss Bob’s questions there.

  • Comment by: Ir

    13 05/31/06 10:46 AM | Comment Link |

    Thanks for sharing that link, Eliza.