I think this is fabulous. Congratulations to Hemant and Pastor Tim. I hope that this will be recorded and posted on this blog. I also hope that Hemant, Tim, Lynn and whoever else is in attendence that would like to share how this experience has been for them - will do so.
In my church we have had great dialogues with those of the Muslim Faith and of the Jewish Faith. I am going to propose a dialogue at our church with a Humanist friend and it looks to me that how Hemants visit is set up is exactly correct - for Hemant to share about being an Atheist - and for those of the church to respond to Hemant’s questions about Christianity.
The feedback from this session will help me in presenting this idea to my Pastor and fellow church people.
I hope that what is taking place with Hemant at Parkview and what we might do here in Santa Barbara can be models to encourage other churches to do the same.
I think this could be a breakthrough in expanding Respectful Dialogue.
Marty wrote: I hope that this will be recorded and posted on this blog.
Marty, it looks like Parkview CC now puts soundfiles of every message on their site, so I’m hoping this will be on there in due course. If so, I’ll certainly link to it.
If Hemant writes about it afterwards, I’ll link to that also.
I was at all three services and it was awesome. It was as interesting a weekend as I’ve ever seen at Parkview and that’s really saying something given the high quality of our worship services.
Pastor Tim and Hemant had three half-hour discussions (as opposed to debates) between The Friendly Christian and The Friendly Atheist. I thought Tim did a great job of giving us a model for dialoguing with non-Christians.
Hemant’s “problem” with Christianity is one many Christians struggle with as well. Why will a non-Christian who has led a good life be denied entry into heaven while a stone-cold killer can confess Christ as he’s being strapped to the chair and be saved?
The answer, of course, is that none of us is good enough to earn our way into heaven and Jesus wasn’t kidding when he said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
This simply doesn’t make logical sense to Hemant. I know how he feels. His belief that we are nothing more than the sum of our parts, that there is no such thing as a soul, makes no logical sense to me.
Audio and video recordings were made of all three discussions. They are all worth listening to, as they are all different. The audio should be available soon on the Sermon Archives page of our Web site. My understanding is that we will eventually make the video available on DVD.
I really appreciate the feedback, Penn State Football. I’m glad to hear the dialog between Tim and Hemant went well.
The answer, of course, is that none of us is good enough to earn our way into heaven and Jesus wasn’t kidding when he said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
This simply doesn’t make logical sense to Hemant. I know how he feels. His belief that we are nothing more than the sum of our parts, that there is no such thing as a soul, makes no logical sense to me.
I sort of understand your point but it seems to me that you’d have to be an atheist too to really know how he feels.
It was a great service. What Tim said was true, we need to be examples of Christianity and not turn people off by shoving it down there throats. A discussion, not a debate. I just wonder if what really is going on with Hemant is that he just isn’t sure and wants the hard evidence?
LK, what is the “hard evidence” that Hemant doesn’t have? I’m just curious what you meant by that.
Not LK, but he might be referring to Hemant’s frustration with Lee Strobel’s books. Hemant said they were really good, but left him wanting. He said Lee would ask questions and get an answer, but not ask key follow-up questions.
Hemant said he has a large collection of Christian books people have sent him. I guess that’s one way to build a library!
I just wonder if what really is going on with Hemant is that he just isn’t sure and wants the hard evidence?
LK, it seemed to me that Hemant addressed this in the third recording - he described the position of many atheists well, I thought. For many of us, “I don’t believe God exists” is far more accurate statement of our beliefs than “God doesn’t exist”. As Hemant pointed out, noone has a solid basis for making that latter claim. If there were “hard evidence” for God that we could accept, and experience, and examine, and be convinced there was no purely “natural” explanation for…well, that would be a very interesting and welcome development.
But one big difference between Christians and atheists/agnostics seems to be what we accept as “evidence”, and what we interpret that evidence as proving. Speaking as an atheist, what I/we have heard and seen presented so far as evidence does not convince us that God exists. I, too, read Lee Strobel’s books (and other apologists) - and I had a similar reaction as Hemant, though I suspect I would have not been as polite as he in discussing what seemed to be lacking in Mr. Strobel’s probing and logical progressions.
Comment by: Marty
1I think this is fabulous. Congratulations to Hemant and Pastor Tim. I hope that this will be recorded and posted on this blog. I also hope that Hemant, Tim, Lynn and whoever else is in attendence that would like to share how this experience has been for them - will do so.
In my church we have had great dialogues with those of the Muslim Faith and of the Jewish Faith. I am going to propose a dialogue at our church with a Humanist friend and it looks to me that how Hemants visit is set up is exactly correct - for Hemant to share about being an Atheist - and for those of the church to respond to Hemant’s questions about Christianity.
The feedback from this session will help me in presenting this idea to my Pastor and fellow church people.
I hope that what is taking place with Hemant at Parkview and what we might do here in Santa Barbara can be models to encourage other churches to do the same.
I think this could be a breakthrough in expanding Respectful Dialogue.
Comment by: Ir
2Marty, it looks like Parkview CC now puts soundfiles of every message on their site, so I’m hoping this will be on there in due course. If so, I’ll certainly link to it.
If Hemant writes about it afterwards, I’ll link to that also.
Comment by: Penn State Football
3I was at all three services and it was awesome. It was as interesting a weekend as I’ve ever seen at Parkview and that’s really saying something given the high quality of our worship services.
Pastor Tim and Hemant had three half-hour discussions (as opposed to debates) between The Friendly Christian and The Friendly Atheist. I thought Tim did a great job of giving us a model for dialoguing with non-Christians.
Hemant’s “problem” with Christianity is one many Christians struggle with as well. Why will a non-Christian who has led a good life be denied entry into heaven while a stone-cold killer can confess Christ as he’s being strapped to the chair and be saved?
The answer, of course, is that none of us is good enough to earn our way into heaven and Jesus wasn’t kidding when he said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
This simply doesn’t make logical sense to Hemant. I know how he feels. His belief that we are nothing more than the sum of our parts, that there is no such thing as a soul, makes no logical sense to me.
Audio and video recordings were made of all three discussions. They are all worth listening to, as they are all different. The audio should be available soon on the Sermon Archives page of our Web site. My understanding is that we will eventually make the video available on DVD.
Comment by: Ir
4I really appreciate the feedback, Penn State Football. I’m glad to hear the dialog between Tim and Hemant went well.
I sort of understand your point but it seems to me that you’d have to be an atheist too to really know how he feels.
Comment by: Penn State Football
5Not at all. We both have positions that the other finds illogical. Different subjects, same feeling.
Comment by: LK
6It was a great service. What Tim said was true, we need to be examples of Christianity and not turn people off by shoving it down there throats. A discussion, not a debate. I just wonder if what really is going on with Hemant is that he just isn’t sure and wants the hard evidence?
Comment by: LK
7Oh if you go to http://www.parkviewchurch.com/worship/archives.html, you can listen to all three sermons. They are available now.
Comment by: Ir
8Thanks LK.
Comment by: Ir
9LK, what is the ‘hard evidence’ that Hemant doesn’t have?
I’m just curious what you meant by that.
Comment by: Penn State Football
10LK wrote:
Not LK, but he might be referring to Hemant’s frustration with Lee Strobel’s books. Hemant said they were really good, but left him wanting. He said Lee would ask questions and get an answer, but not ask key follow-up questions.
Hemant said he has a large collection of Christian books people have sent him. I guess that’s one way to build a library!
Comment by: Eliza
11LK, it seemed to me that Hemant addressed this in the third recording - he described the position of many atheists well, I thought. For many of us, “I don’t believe God exists” is far more accurate statement of our beliefs than “God doesn’t exist”. As Hemant pointed out, noone has a solid basis for making that latter claim. If there were “hard evidence” for God that we could accept, and experience, and examine, and be convinced there was no purely “natural” explanation for…well, that would be a very interesting and welcome development.
But one big difference between Christians and atheists/agnostics seems to be what we accept as “evidence”, and what we interpret that evidence as proving. Speaking as an atheist, what I/we have heard and seen presented so far as evidence does not convince us that God exists. I, too, read Lee Strobel’s books (and other apologists) - and I had a similar reaction as Hemant, though I suspect I would have not been as polite as he in discussing what seemed to be lacking in Mr. Strobel’s probing and logical progressions.