Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 07.26.2006 /
I was thinking about advice I’ve received from (well-meaning) evangelical Christians - either directly or in sermons or books.
If atheists advise each other similarly, Hemant probably received this advice when it became known that he planned to visit church services:
“Don’t go to church - it could be ‘dangerous’ to your atheism”
“Who are you spending time with? Are any of them real atheists?”
“Don’t read those Christian books you’ve been sent. They might ‘confuse’ you”
“Are you attending atheist meetings regularly?”
“I think you’re on a dangerous path. I advise you to reconsider”
“Are you taking a few minutes each day to read atheism-affirming literature?”
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Comment by: Jim Henderson
1 07/26/06 6:11 AM | Comment Link |very funny
I know he received one or two of these pieces of advice for sure
Comment by: David S
2 07/26/06 8:53 AM | Comment Link |Jim, it might be interesting to see the actual quotes you think were similar to the above. You might even go back to one or two of my posts as I posted some warnings, but I suspect they might not be quite what you remember them to be.
Comment by: Siamang
3 07/26/06 9:19 AM | Comment Link |Those are funny.
Heck, I had David S warn me in a recent thread that I was one confounding emotional experience away from theism!
Comment by: David S
4 07/26/06 9:35 AM | Comment Link |Anyone that believes a confounding emotional experience is evidence for something is one confounding emotional experience away from being convinced of something (regardless if it’s true or not). This is one reason why cults are successful.
Comment by: Hemant
5 07/26/06 10:27 AM | Comment Link |Hey all– Funny pieces of advice :) But I need to say that I never received any of those from atheists.
I hope this doesn’t come off as arrogant: atheists are usually comfortable enough in their philosophy that receiving religion in one’s life (or going to church) is not any cause for concern. That’s not to say that religious people aren’t comfortable, but in my experience, I have heard those lines mentioned to religious people when referring to atheist gatherings. Never the other way around, though.
To answer some of them (And I know they’re just hypothetical):
There’s no danger to atheism if you’re just opening your mind to other ideas. We encourage looking everywhere. If you use your logic and reason, you will most likely stay an atheist.
A lot of people become atheists without knowing any others even exist! Certainly, I didn’t know any others when I became one.
There’s nothing confusing. Most of the books are just kinda absurd (stuff by Tim Lahaye) or use faulty logic. Some are really good, and I enjoy them. But atheists would be the last people to stop freedom of inquiry. (For what it’s worth, I’ve never heard of an atheist lead the charge to ban school library books for having “dangerous” ideas)
That cracks me up. Atheists are non-joiners in general (many left church, after all). Most don’t attend any atheist meetings. I am one of the small minority that does join secular organizations.
Again, there’s no danger in open inquiry. And dangerous? What’s my danger? I would “get saved”? Sounds like a win-win for me either way. :)
I don’t know what that is… I haven’t seen many books that say “DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD!!!” There are a few (Richard Dawkin’s book called the God Delusion is out in a couple months), but we don’t really have the cute little pamphlets that Christians do. (We should make those…) I do read science books a lot, but they just don’t talk about God. Is that the same thing?
Jim said he knew I received some of this advice. I think what he’s referring to are the atheists who bid on me *not* to go to church during the auction. I’m not sure what their reasoning was; however, I always assumed they just didn’t want me to have to sit in church for a year. Not because I would change my mind, but because, well, it can get unbelievably dull at certain places.
Comment by: Siamang
6 07/26/06 10:55 AM | Comment Link |He did it again!
Comment by: David S
7 07/26/06 11:13 AM | Comment Link |Heh, yes Siamang, I did. Remember I was a missionary and I’ve seen how this works. I was trained to get potential converts to see emotional experiences as evidence of truth (this was backed up by scripture in the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:4). Then you get the potential convert to sincerely pray or otherwise try to invoke an emotional response and bingo, you’ve supposedly proven something “true” and have a convert.
I wouldn’t be blase’ about the power of emotion to sway people, especially if they start with poor assumptions. Emotion is a lousy truth detector, yet it’s usually the basis for religious faith.
Comment by: Ir
8 07/26/06 11:30 AM | Comment Link |Thanks Hemant!
I did see a few atheist warnings to you - they might have been in connection with your dialog with Pastor Tim. They were along the lines: “Be careful - you might get taken advantage of”.
Like the ones you remembered, they weren’t warnings motivated by concern that what you’re doing might lead to you not being an atheist any more. They were more “you might not enjoy this very much”.
The evangelical Christian warnings on which I based the above, were, so it seemed to me, based on a concern that the person they were directed towards could be heading in the direction of loing their faith if they weren’t careful.
It seems to me that evangelical Christians worry more about other evangelical Christians losing their faith than atheists worry about other atheists losing their atheism. If I’m right, why is that?
Comment by: Jim Henderson
9 07/26/06 11:51 AM | Comment Link |Sorry for implying that Hemant recevied any comments like these from fellow athiests- I dont have time to dig back in the archives but I thought I remembered him gettin SOME negative feedback from Atheists but I guess not
sorry
Comment by: David S
10 07/26/06 12:19 PM | Comment Link |I gave him negative feedback. I told him he’d be wasting his time and be bored out of his skull to boot. I think I was wrong on those counts.
But I don’t think I gave warnings like what Ir posted.
Comment by: Karen
11 07/26/06 3:37 PM | Comment Link |The way I see it, by the time someone gets to the point of actually calling him/herself “an atheist,” s/he has thought through the issues and is probably quite committed to using logic and scientific reasoning to understand the world. That’s why I wouldn’t “worry” about an atheist being negatively affected (i.e. converted) by church attendance.
Yes, emotional experiences are prime motivators for conversions in people who probably haven’t thought much about religion, don’t know whether they believe in god(s) or not. But people who’ve become persuaded that supernatural claims require supernatural evidence don’t seem likely to be moved to belief on the basis of a spiritual “experience” like one might have in church (which are pretty few and far between anyone, in my experience!).
Comment by: Ir
12 07/26/06 5:04 PM | Comment Link |Jim wrote:
You’re right, Jim. I remember something happening early on which is similar to what Christians sometimes do to each other. There was at least one person who criticized Hemant for bringing negative rather than positive publicity to atheists.
The specific thing I haven’t seen atheists do is worry that other atheists are in danger of ‘losing their atheism’ if those other atheists don’t regularly engage in atheism-affirming activities.
Comment by: Siamang
13 07/26/06 5:50 PM | Comment Link |Ooooohhhh…. yeah I remember that individual over on IIDB…. whew. That person seems to have a bad opinion on everything anyone does.
Comment by: Mike C
14 07/27/06 10:14 AM | Comment Link |That’d be great! I’d love to see the atheist version of a Chick Tract. Someone should make one!
Comment by: Siamang
15 07/27/06 10:18 AM | Comment Link |Mike,
Here’s the atheist parody of the very one you linked to!
http://www.weirdcrap.com/chick/tyd/tyd.html
Comment by: Eliza
16 07/27/06 10:31 AM | Comment Link |(1) ECs worry that the person will be exposed to “false prophets”, or alluring but “false” ideas and doubts that will lead them down The Road to Hell. They are trying to “save” the person from that, & so may feel this is of crucial - even desperate - importance.
(2) Having a peer slip away from EC-ianity may, at some level, be threatening to the belief system of the EC who’s giving them the cautious advice. (This is a guess)
(3) Atheists don’t believe in Hell. Atheists have, for the most part at least, come to their own decision about their beliefs. Many atheists are, from what we’ve heard in other threads here, quite willing to reconsider and possibly change their beliefs if presented with evidence that seems compelling, and have looked for any evidence that such evidence - acceptable to them as such - exists.
There was a discussion thread somewhere here or on the Discussion Board, a while back, about how atheists would react if they heard that a well-known atheist, or one they knew, had converted to Christianity. Each atheist who responded said they’d be interested to hear what the person had to say, would be interested in having a chance to consider the same “proof”. But if it were a personal, emotional, spiritual experience that brought about the conversion, that wouldn’t be convincing to other atheists. They’d want something external, something that could be examined and considered by others.
Comment by: Julie Marie
17 07/27/06 12:57 PM | Comment Link |I think that is a good guess Eliza. I’d say the tone of the delivery of the admonition will let you know what is at the root of it - concern for your welfare, or concern for their belief system.
Comment by: Mike C
18 07/27/06 3:51 PM | Comment Link |Sweet!
Comment by: Ir
19 07/27/06 4:14 PM | Comment Link |That Chick tract parody was done by the same guy who wrote ‘Kissing Hank’s Ass’ (Jim posted that video clip here a few months ago)