Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 11.25.2006 /
This booklet (current version) was written by Pastor Tim Harlow for parents to give to their childrens’ teachers. Here’s an excerpt from the introduction:
as a teacher, you are bound to teach evolution. That is not your fault: it is simply the reality and I do understand that fact. I just want to try to keep you open to the idea that my child, and probably most children in your classroom, do not believe that “theory.” I am asking you to teach (or continue to teach) evolution as just that - a “theory,” and keep your classroom open to other theories of the origin of the world.
Hemant saw the original version on Pastor Tim’s website a few months ago. Hemant asked him about it in dialog #2 of the three dialogs they had in Pastor Tim’s church services in June.
There was subsequent discussion of it on Hemant’s site, which resulted in Pastor Tim promising to correct some errors in it. It was removed from his church website.
The revisions were made and it’s now up again. But evidently the revised version is still problematic, according to
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Comment by: cautiousmaniac
1 11/25/06 9:21 AM | Comment Link |Pastor Tim has a moral complaint; he believes that a universe without a loving, benevolent Creator gives people no reason to do good works.
This belief gives him a reason to employ incredibly ignorant statements to back up his denial of natural science.
And yet the odd thing is that by lying and by quoting liars, he gives evidence that he is not doing good work. His moral complaint (that only Christians are moral) is, by his own words and actions, shown to be wrong. Bravo.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
2 11/25/06 11:23 AM | Comment Link |cautiousmaniac, I find that Christians often give too little thought to the moral implications of stating their case with insufficient substantiation. It evidently doesn’t occur to them that their integrity is at stake when they do that.
Comment by: Siamang
3 11/25/06 11:27 AM | Comment Link |I thought I had put a stake through the heart of this zombie document.
*exasperated sigh*
I’m just too busy with the holidays to properly respond to this. I have to say I’m disappointed.
Comment by: cautiousmaniac
4 11/25/06 12:13 PM | Comment Link |Siamang, don’t feel bummed that you’re not responding. Feel happy that dozens of commenters on Pharyngula and other scienceblogs are taking apart the Pastor’s “revised” document!
Ir-Helen, maybe they view the small sin of lying and misrepresenting other people as a “necessary evil” in order to defeat a greater evil?
Anyone - I am going to ask this at Hemants blog too, but did anyone save Pastor Tims file from the first time around? I am interested in seeing how much revision actually took place.
Comment by: NCxian
5 11/25/06 3:48 PM | Comment Link |I’m not sure this is a uniquely Christian affliction. Nor that it is an affliction of all Christians. BICBW ;)
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
6 11/25/06 5:22 PM | Comment Link |(BICBW = But I Could Be Wrong)
I agree; maybe I should have said “some Christians” rather than “Christians often”, to make it clearer I didn’t mean all Christians.
cautious maniac - I didn’t save it the first time around; sorry. Maybe someone who commented on it when Hemant first discussed it on his blog might have saved the original.
Comment by: David S
7 11/25/06 10:25 PM | Comment Link |“…his pamphlet is 199 proof distilled stupid”.
It seems the associate prof isn’t pulling punches.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
8 11/26/06 8:24 AM | Comment Link |David, I’m familiar with PZ Myers from IIDB. He never pulls any punches there either…
Comment by: Eliza
9 11/28/06 7:26 PM | Comment Link |I read but don’t remember the prior version. At least some parts of this have been rewritten…but not for the better. I remember that the first version claimed that many, many scientists believed in creation, and that the paper confused the origin of the universe with the origin of life with the origin of species. Those problems are all still present, on page 5, but look different (from what I recall):
Wow. What a statement - an “overwhelming number of scientists…refuse to observe the facts…”
Well, sure. But that’s a comment on the origin and “evolution” (as in, change or development) of the universe, which is NOT the same thing as “evolutionary theory” that the biology teachers will be teaching. It just happens to use the word “evolution”.
Ummm, right. He’s not a scientific expert. And, is he referring to the kind of love that is sort of pitying, like “You have a right to your opinion no matter how totally wrong it is, and I love you in spite of it”?
Comment by: Eliza
10 11/28/06 8:10 PM | Comment Link |I finished the whole thing. It’s ludicrous, based on quotes taken out of context & scientific info from the 1980’s & the claptrap of the ID movement. It exposes his severe lack of understanding of science.
There are parts that are unchanged, including the closing page, which ends a list of ridiculous things evolution tries to make people believe:
The irony of that line, coming from a Christian pastor, still brings a bit of comic relief, for me, from the rest of this paper.
Comment by: joe
11 11/30/06 2:33 AM | Comment Link |I know I am probably taking things a bit too literally, but I would really, really like to know how the pre-fall world operated without death.
Given that all our natural nutrient cycles are entirely based on death, a pre-fall world would operate in an entirely different fashion to that which we observe today. Moveover, if what we see today is an example of decay and fallenness, then what was must be more perfect than what we have, as well as being totally different.
And given that the natural systems we have are one of the greatest wonders of creation, I’d find it hard to believe that there could be something ‘more perfect’.
Creationism doesn’t even work in its own terms.
Comment by: Julie Marie
12 11/30/06 6:25 AM | Comment Link |yeah, gotta love the oh you poor little dumb dumb, luckily for you I am so full of love I can include even you and your foolishness in my heart…
sheesh.
Comment by: Lynn I
13 11/30/06 2:16 PM | Comment Link |I’ve spent a great deal of time reading back through the many posts berating Tim Harlow and I’ve got to mention one observation that glares form each and every post - the closed-mindedness of the non-believers just blows me away. The assumption on the part of many is that believers are the ones that are narrow minded, however throughout each one of the many posts on this thread and the others, it is apparent that it is the non-believers with the closed mind. If you read (not read into) what Dr. Harlow wrote, he doesn’t say don’t teach evolution - he says, understand that your teaching may be in contrast to what many of the children in your class have been brought up to believe - he also says he doesn’t fault teachers for teaching evolution - he understands that it’s what they do for a living - he doesn’t judge them for what they teach. He is asking for understanding from the teacher on behalf of his children.
You guys here really take the cake!
Comment by: cautiousmaniac
14 11/30/06 5:25 PM | Comment Link |He is asking for teachers to understand willful, intentional ignorance in their students.
I’m sorry that it’s “closed-minded” of me to not accept intentional ignorance. Maybe I should be more tolerant of people who intentionally don’t want to understand things?
Comment by: Siamang
15 11/30/06 6:22 PM | Comment Link |Lynn, does pastor Tim have to misquote eminent scientists to make his point? Does he really need to refuse to correct his paper when people point out that he’s putting words into people’s mouths that they didn’t say?
Isn’t that bearing false witness?
I respect his right to his opinion. I do not respect his intellectual dishonesty in presenting his opinion.
And if you read the older discussion threads on this document, most of the Christians posting here agreed with me about that:
http://off-the-map.org/ebayatheist/viewtopic.php?t=299&highlight=harlow