Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 01.03.2007 /
Isaone mentioned this recently on the discussion board. As he points out, The Rational Response Squad is offering the video The God Who Wasn’t There free to the first 1001 people who post videos of themselves denying the Holy Spirit on youtube.
From their page, The Blasphemy Challenge:
The Rational Response Squad is giving away 1001 DVDs of The God Who Wasn’t There, the hit documentary that the Los Angeles Times calls “provocative — to put it mildly.”
There’s only one catch: We want your soul.
It’s simple. You record a short message damning yourself to Hell, you upload it to YouTube, and then the Rational Response Squad will send you a free The God Who Wasn’t There DVD. It’s that easy.
INSTRUCTIONS:
You may damn yourself to Hell however you would like, but somewhere in your video you must say this phrase: “I deny the Holy Spirit.”
Somehow that idea of selling or trading one’s soul seems familiar…where have I heard that before?
Anyway this ‘challenge’ intrigues me. Partly because: obviously the people who make these videos wouldn’t do it if they really thought they were damning themselves to hell. But does anyone truly believe that simply making a video like this with a certain statement it would damn anyone to hell? I wouldn’t have thought so - but maybe I’m wrong.
This also caught my attention because two atheists who have been commenting on here or the discussion board regularly - TXatheist and David S - participated in this ‘challenge’. So I got to see videos of them. As I said on the discussion board, they look like quite decent guys even though they are Evil Holy-Spirit Denying Atheists!
Comment by: David S
1It doesn’t matter what you believe, some religion somewhere thinks you’re going to some version of hell. You cannot escape it. But neither are you frightened of it either because you don’t believe in that hell. That people don’t fear other religions is sort of the point. What might be an unthinkable unforgiveable sin to one group is another group’s hamburger. It’s interesting to consider how certain you might be of one religion, while having not the slightest fear that all those other religions out there might be true. The atheist is the same except he treats all religions consistently and so doesn’t fear that first one either.
Since the atheist is free of fears of faith, we’re in the position to stand up and be an example of what that means. But we’re really no different from the Christian as they also doubt most faiths… perhaps a Christian seeing someone (or hundreds of someones) face what they fear, could change how they see things a little bit.
Comment by: Eliza
2I’ve watched some of the Blasphemy Challenge videos on YouTube. It’s interesting, for several reasons.
One is just seeing person after person “come out” as atheists. (Most so far seem to be young men - but that might just reflect the demographic most likely to have/use video equipment and to be familiar with downloading a video onto a website.)
Another is seeing how many people take the opportunity to expand on their thoughts, about non-belief and why they’re not concerned about eternal damnation as they deny the Holy Spirit. (TXatheist’s video is one of the shortest - he comes right to the point, as he often does in discussions here and on the DB!)
Another is seeing how several people have pointed out that it doesn’t make sense to deny something they don’t believe exists, even if that means they won’t get a free DVD.
Another is that some of these people probably already own the DVD being offered…this seems to me for some it must be more like an invitation that it’s OK to post a declaration of one’s atheism, rather than just a way to get a free DVD.
Comment by: Siamang
3I am reminded of Steve Martin’s comedy bit.
“If there is a God, GIVE ME A SIGN! ….. See, I told you that buluwa buluuwaaa buluuwuuu wuuubulluwuuuwww.”
Comment by: Jim Henderson
4It was fun to see TX and David up close which makes me think that if people could get in a room with each other and listen without giving into the feeling to fix/change/coerce or convince each other and instead we were simply curious it could be kind of fun.
David I thought your challnge to Christians regarding Mark 16 was very good. No one will be able to take you up on it unless you are willing to accept a video of Benny Hinn knocking people down but you make a very good point. Cs are eventually going to have to openly acknowledge that we do pick and choose which passages seem of most importance to us and which ones we decide to ignore. In fact many Cs who haven;t been exposed to pentecostalism (the largest social movement in history)will not even be familiar with Mark 16 since their pastors got rid of it by saying “its not for today” - more craziness to offer atheists looking for actual ammo to use on us.
Thanks for standing up for what you dont believe in
Comment by: David S
5Thanks Jim. I put up a second video the other day discussing in a much more serious and respectful tone issues of faith and reason. And I hope to get up another video in the next couple days that will be more about what I do believe and why.
Comment by: Mike O
6I deny the existance of David S and Txatheist. Heck, I deny the existance of Siamang, too. I would even deny the existance of Jim and Helen, except I’ve actually met them, so that’s a little harder.
Big deal.
If God sent everyone to hell who at some point didn’t believe in him, heaven would be an awefully lonely place because EVERY Christian at some point, or through some process, changed from a position of non-belief to belief. According to this supposedly “Rational Response” (Ha!) Squad, every person on the face of the earth is guilty of the unforgivable sin. We ALL have denied the Holy Spirit at some time.
Therefore, the blasphemy challenge is irrational because, when you boil it down, it makes the premise that in order to be a Christian, you have to believe that it’s not possible to be a Christian. Huh? Rather, I believe they have misdefined “the unforgivable sin.” I don’t know what it is, but this isn’t it.
When I was five, I didn’t believe in God. In fact, I actually denied him (yes, at the age of five!) Now I do believe in him and have devoted my whole life to him. Am I still doomed to hell because at one point I made a ridiculous statement 38 years ago?
I know people who have changed from non-belief to belief as adults. Are they still going to hell because they, at one time, denied the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so.
The only danger that this “blasphemy challenge” carries with it to non-believers is *not* that they are damned to hell for producing a stupid little video … it’s that they may now *think* they are damned to hell for producing a stupid little video, so they will never accept the grace they have available to them.
That’s sad.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
7Mike, I never knew you were such a skeptic: I guess I find the video evidence of TXatheist and David S more convincing than you do! ;-)
I’m glad you commented because what you said goes along with my own theory that Christians probably don’t believe denying the Holy Spirit in a youtube video is the unforgivable sin.
I don’t think this is likely to get seriously in the way of someone deciding to rethink their position later. Because if anyone does come to have some interest in God/Jesus, they will ask a Christian “Am I damned to hell because I made that video” and I can’t imagine the Christian saying “Yes, you are”.
I think part of what the Rational Response Squad is doing is trying to make fun of Christian belief by saying “Look what dumb things Christians believe - they think denying the Holy Spirit damns people to hell!”
I don’t think everyone who made the video responses necessarily is out to make fun of Christian belief although it may come across that way to some Christians. Like people have pointed out on the discussion board, they are probably doing this because a) it’s implicitly an opportunity to come out as an atheist in the same way some other atheists are doing b) why not, for a free video?
There are Christian youtube responses to this challenge (presumably they don’t deny the Holy Spirit!) but I haven’t watched any (so far).
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
8Jim (and anyone else), if you have time, you might be interested to watch the slightly longer video by David S (about 6 minutes) which he mentioned. As he said, he goes into his reasons for not believing at more length in this one. Here’s the link:
David S’s video response to a Christian
Comment by: Mike O
9Well, sure, there’s “evidence” that they exist, but there’s no “proof.” Same as how I find the evidence that God exists more convincing than atheists do.
You don’t? I think MOST are taking a poke a Christians - even God himself. (”on the off-chance that you really do exist … “take that, almighty creator [insert shaking fist here]!! There … damn me.)
SOME may see it as nothing more than a platform to express disbelief and an opportunity to get a free video. But of the 787 videos that come up with the keywords blasphemy and challenge, you honestly think that MOST of them aren’t making fun of Christians? Of course they are … this is is the youtube crowd … they make fun of everything.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a youtube fan myself. But don’t whitewash the motives of the mischeivous little devils who frequent the site. I seriously doubt the majority of them were just waiting for an opportunity to “come out” as atheists. Some?? Sure. Most?? I doubt it.
Comment by: David S
10I think the challenge is a combination of things. It’s a publicity stunt for the RRS; it’s atheists standing up for themselves and publicly declaring freedom from a way of thinking that most people around subscribe to; it’s a bit of fun (my video was done tongue in cheek); it’s a free video…
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
11Mike, you might be right about ‘most’ atheists who made the video responses. I think you misunderstood me - all I was saying was, I don’t think every atheist who responded was making fun of Christians/Christianity. I didn’t get the impression that David S and TXatheist were. Or at least, not in a nasty mean way - David S does have a lighthearted tone in his; I realize that. But maybe I’m desensitized because I’m so used to hearing what atheists say.
For what it’s worth I think there’s a difference between “this is fun” and “let’s mock Christians/Christianity” although perhaps there is some overlap.
I’ve hardly watched any of the responses so to be honest I don’t know what most of them are like. I didn’t mean to be commenting on most of them - only to say that I don’t think every one of them is mocking Christianity in a mean way.
Anyway I respect your opinion and judgment Mike.
Comment by: TXatheist
12Mike O,
My birth certificate is proof. The work I do is seen by all and they can witness me doing it. That is evidence and proof of me. If I raked all the leaves and my yard and no one saw it but I said I did it that isn’t evidence or proof. It’s just as possible god did the raking or carefully blew all the leaves into a pile. However, one event happens very regularly and is seen by millions of people while the other is just a story with no one ever witnessing the actions or the being. If I wanted to make a stupid little video knocking xians I could have but I chose to be honest and be myself.
Comment by: Mike O
13Hey, guys, don’t take it personal! The whole “Hey, let’s blaspheme the Holy Spirit” thing just doesn’t sit well with Christians, and it was intended not to, so please give me the room to not like it.
And my point was that I hear all the time how people don’t believe in God because they have no proof themselves. You can rake your leaves all you like, and I still have no proof that you did it. Now, if you came to MY yard and raked MY leaves and showed ME your birth certificate proving it was really you, THEN I’d have proof that you exist. But short of that, all I have is documentation and other people’s word for it … kind of like God.
Bottom line … nobody blasphemed the holy spirit in those videos.
Comment by: Siamang
14The truth is, a muslim COULD blaspheme the holy spirit in the definition that some christians are going by.
The idea of an unforgivable sin is the problem, not the technicality of who is or is not able to commit that sin.
Comment by: Stephan
15The definition of the unforgivable sin is never clearly spelled out in the Bible. My idea of it is this - to stand before God and, to His face, deny His authority. That, to me, is the definition of blasphemy.
I believe Satan did this, as well as the angels who followed Satan. I do not believe this is something you could do over a YouTube video.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
16Siamang wrote:
It makes sense to me from a contractual point of view to say “If you don’t ever sign here this won’t ever apply to you”.
I find it harder to accept from a relational point of view.
Comment by: seeker
17Please seem my post on this challenge, and why those taking the challenge probably are not doing it “right.”
The Blasphemy Challenge Oberved
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
18Thanks for your comment, seeker. I noticed you said this in your post on your own site:
Wow - you sound very sure that people don’t reject faith for intellectual reasons.
I disagree - I think they do reject it for intellectual reasons.
Comment by: Karen
19I certainly did, absolutely.
Comment by: Stephan
20I would add that it is sometimes hard to determine our own motives, and intellect is rarely isolated from emotion. I would guess that there is more than one cause when someone changes their beliefs, and emotions probably play a part. Nearly every atheist I have communicated with here has had some negative experience with the church, although most say their decision to leave was intellectual. Is it possible that emotion played a part, perhaps even more than they are willing to admit?
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
21Stephan, I don’t mind admitting that emotions had a role in my change in belief.
However, so did my intellect.
Comment by: MTran
22Well, you can add me to the list of people who has had no bad experiences or had any negative feelings about the churches or bible study classes I attended as a young person. And I attended a lot of different churches, since my family moved around a lot. (A military brat, they might say.)
My “disaffection” with religion in general, Christianity in particular and any form of superstition came from the same sources. Namely, there was little if any credible evidence or explanation for most of it and supernatural beings do not constitute an answer to any questions that I have. God, the supernatural, have no explanatory or emotional value to me.
Now the god of the old testament and the threat of an eternity in hell frightened and bewildered me as a kid, till about the age of 9 or 10. But neither hell nor that god made any moral sense to me. Later they made no sort of sense at all, though I was always partial to the teachings of this Jesus fellow, who seemed a decent sort.
When I say that religion answered none of my questions, I mean that literally. From the time I was 4 or 5 years old and began actively questioning the precepts of the bible stories I was told. I was never chided, however, by religious authorities. My questions were always treated with a great deal of patience, kindness and thoughtfulness. But the answers were utterly inadequate.
So I slowly grew away from any belief. Not from anger or perceived abuse. Just because I found no “there” there. While there were plenty of clues outside of scripture and the church.
Comment by: JG
23That comes across as a pretty negative experience to me.
Comment by: Stephan
24MTran, thanks for your response. It sounds like your experience in church is similar to, or perhaps even better than, mine.
Comment by: MTran
25No worse than being afraid of doing something you know is awful and fearing that your teacher or parents will find out. Rather like all the kids who say, “My parents would kill me if I did [whatever].” Their parents aren’t literally going to kill them, just rant and rave in all probability. The kids know that. But the kid is stressed out anyhow. Just as thriller movies are frightening even though the audience knows they are fiction.
You’ll notice I said “bewildered.” I said that because, even as a very young kid, this type of god of grossly disproportionate punishment made no sense to me at all. So it bothered me, but I couldn’t believe it fully. I still find it bewildering that anyone would consider such and entity to be “moral” in any way.
Comment by: MTran
26I realize now that one of my comments above regarding hell may give the impression that I attended “fire and brimstone” churches. I did not. I learned about these crazy things from mostly Roman Catholic friends and class mates who felt it necessary to tell me that I would burn in hell with all the heretics unless I became a Roman Catholic. The other primary sources for “hell” information came from movies, books, tv shows, and all the references to hell and the devil in popular culture. American culture is thoroughly soaked in this sort of thing, the references are ubiquitous.
Comment by: Republican
27What’s so challenging about the “Blasphemy Challenge?” You already won.