Posted by Mike O on: 02.01.2007 /
Sometimes I question my own motives out here on eBay atheist. If I were to be completely honest with myself (and with y’all), what would I say my motives are?
Well, when I’m not actually online writing for eBay atheist, I’m talking to other Christians about it. And I think the reasons I give them, the reasons I give when I’m not being careful how I say it … those reveal the “real” me. So in an effort to be honest with myself and with you, I’m going to tell you what I tell them. Why? I don’t know. Maybe it’s to protect myself from becoming hypocritical, saying one thing to you and something else to them. I want to be genuine.
The “real” reason I’m here … the reason(s) I give my Christian friends when I’m talking about it … is that I see great value in Christians de-sequestering ourselves and actually mixing with the real world. I see value in Christians getting outside of our own buildings and our own cliques and our own world, and “mixing it up” with unbelievers. Jesus would.
Am I trying to convert you? That’s a tough one. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t care if you ever became Christians or not. But at the same time, notching my belt is not the point. I think Luke chapter 15 describes where I’m at with it. Luke 15 contains three parables of lost things and when they are found, the person looking for them rejoices greatly. That’s where I think I’m at with it. I would rejoice if one of you came to Christ. I do have an evangelistic bent about me, but do I seriously expect that to happen? I don’t know. I hope for it. I pray. Jesus seemed to do OK when he was out amongst ‘em. I just think if there’s a God, spending time with you, regardless of conversions, is something He would want me to do.
I really do listen to what you say. And I’ve come to realize that if the only reason I’m listening to you is to get you to listen to me, well, that’s not right either. I was at a business leadership conference last year, and one of the things I learned about was the art of “powerless listening.” That’s listening without motives - listenig without thinking about how you will respond. It’s JUST listening. So I try to do that. I think “powerLESS listening” is a powerFUL way to engender long-term relationships. But then I find myself “floppin’ like a crappie” (that’s MN-speak for being indecisive) to the other side of it again … I do want you to listen because I believe that eternity is at stake. I mean, really, how could I call myself a follower of Christ and not think like that? So rather than try to explain away my evangelistic desires, I’m just admitting it. That’s the real me. It’s not like you didn’t already know.
So here I am in this wierd middle ground, wanting to practice “powerless listening” because I really do want to have motiveless dialogue here, realizing that we’ll probably never agree. And at the same time wanting you to hear what I have to say because from my perspective, there is so much at stake. Honestly, I’ve been around long enough to know that there is no argument I can make or logical gymnastics I can perform (or get you to perform) to get you to come to the same conclusions I’ve come to. And that’s OK with me. Many Christians would see this as pointless. But the way I see it, my time spent with you is interesting and it’s revealing. Perhaps the point is for me to bring back to Christians how we’re perceived by the outside world (which I am). Perhaps the point is for me to help other Christians realize that there’s a big ol’ world out there that we need to get involved in and help make it a better place (which I am). Perhaps the point is nothing more than for Christians and atheists to learn to be civil and welcoming to each other (which I am learning to do).
If there’s a spiritual point to me being here, and I think there is, I need to leave that in God’s hands. Heck, Off-the-Map wouldn’t even exist if there wasn’t some spiritual motivation driving it. I have this philosophy I try to live by … “It matters not whether you win or lose, succeed or fail, but only that you did what you were called to do.” To me, that means don’t worry about the (spiritual) results. Just do what you’re supposed to do, and do it well. With that in mind, it doesn’t matter to me if you ever become Christians. I mean, I hope you do, but my being here is not conditional upon that. If it happens, it will be a spiritual transaction that I cannot bring about. What matters to me is that I did what I believed I was supposed to do, and that I did it well. And at this point in my life, I believe God has called me to this site, to this group of people, to put a different face on Christianity. I am wholly and completely inept when it comes to the art of argument. I’m not that smart. I don’t understand evolution that well. I’m not that well versed in atheism. But I do know this … I’m comfortable in your company.
In “The Truman Show,” Lauren/Sylvia wore a pin that expresses it well. “How will it end?” That’s where I’m at with this whole eBay atheist thing. Five years from now will we have gone our seperate ways? Will we be better for it or worse? Or will we still be going? I don’t know, but I’m curious … how will it end?
I hope it ends well, whatever that means. That’s the real me.
Leave a Reply
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
1 02/1/07 9:43 AM | Comment Link |Mike, thanks for sharing.
For the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to share something good you have with others.
I think it becomes a problem when others aren’t given the chance to say such things as “Can’t I make up my own mind whether that would be good for me? Do my own opinions count for nothing? How can you know me better than I know myself?”
And I haven’t seen you trying to deny anyone that chance.
I’m sure I always have an agenda. Probably several, most of the time ;-)
Comment by: Karen
2 02/1/07 10:27 AM | Comment Link |Thanks so much for your honesty and candor, Mike O. I, for one, am very glad we atheists have someone like you who’s willing to listen in such an open manner, and convey some thoughts about our interactions back to your church community.
Not many conservative Christians that I’ve known personally or met online are willing - or even able - to do that, so you’re a rare person. And I thank you for it, and hope you realize how special that makes you.
Comment by: Mike O
3 02/1/07 1:50 PM | Comment Link |It kind of felt like I was coming out of the closet or something.
Comment by: MTran
4 02/1/07 6:28 PM | Comment Link |Mike O.,
Thanks for this posting. I can’t even recall how I ended up on this site, but I’m glad I did.
It can be quite difficult to not want someone to share in something that you have found to be very valuable. So I sympathize with you on that point. I recall how excited, almost euphoric, I was when I first came to the firm conclusion that there was no basis at all for any of the supernatural explanations that permeate our cultural understanding of the world.
I had become something like a “Born Again Atheist,” no more middle-of-the-road agnosticism for me. It gave me such a spiritual and cognitive high that I wanted to share “my” insights (as if I had come up with these explanations on my own) with anyone who would listen. But I quickly realized that only people who are actively searching for spiritual answers are interested in such discussions. So I seldom brought up the matter on my own.
The recent ugly religion pushing and religion bashing in the news got me to consider some of these issues afresh.
I’ve worked with too many intelligent believers, including scientists, to think that believers have no curiosity or capability of understanding my position regarding atheism. But there are tremendous barriers that are in the way of helpful discussion. This board, I think, may be part of the cure for the removal of barriers.
Comment by: Andrew
5 02/1/07 6:30 PM | Comment Link |Hey Mike,
Haven’t been by for a while but am glad I did today. I enjoyed and was encouraged by your post!
God bless bro.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
6 02/1/07 8:07 PM | Comment Link |Hi Andrew, thanks for stopping by!
Comment by: Mike O
7 02/1/07 8:15 PM | Comment Link |Good to hear from you again, Andrew! I’m glad I could be an encouragement.
And thanks MTran, Helen and Karen. You all have been good company!
Comment by: Jim Henderson
8 02/1/07 8:44 PM | Comment Link |When I fell into launching this ebay atheist community thing it was in hopes of hearing christians like Mike O share his real self (as he has so courageously and sensitively done)and atheists like MTran share his as he has so sensitively done in this passage
This is called “giving ground” and when parties that typically polarize practice this kind of open self awareness it opens the door to all sorts of fascinating learning opportunities for all of us.
It makes me very happy to see these expressions of openess, kindness and respect.
It would be fine with me if that is all we accomplish on this blog
Comment by: David S
9 02/2/07 8:13 AM | Comment Link |Nice post.
For myself I don’t mind if there’s an underlying tone or point to convert. To persuade is the point of argument. That it can be done respectfully by both sides, and be mixed with open discussion meant to enlighten rather than persuade is something this board is good at.
Anyone that’s looked around at most other boards recognizes this one is different. Hopefully that will continue.
Comment by: Ernie
10 02/2/07 9:14 AM | Comment Link |I realy believe this is how God wants us to relate our relationship with him to the world around us.
Comment by: Mike O
11 02/2/07 9:25 AM | Comment Link |Me, too.
Comment by: Mike O
12 02/2/07 9:25 AM | Comment Link |Thanks, David. I was wondering what you’d think.
Comment by: Stephan
13 02/2/07 9:27 AM | Comment Link |Mike, thanks for your candor. Sounds like your evolution here has been similar to mine - came originally to try to convert, but the more I learn the more I just want to understand and be understood. If someone changes their mind that would be great, but that is no longer my goal.
In my relationship with God I have realized that obedience is all I am called to, not results. That’s His job.
I love the Truman Show allusion. I feel the same way - “How will it end?”
Comment by: Eliza
14 02/2/07 10:27 PM | Comment Link |Hey, Mike - Thanks. Thanks for your post, and for being yourself. You have put a different face on “Christian” for me.
Comment by: Jeff N
15 02/5/07 7:13 PM | Comment Link |Hey Mike,
You are the real deal and I am glad to be your freind. You make listening and understanding to simple.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
16 02/6/07 5:15 AM | Comment Link |Thanks for your comment, Jeff.
Yes, I have found Mike to be a great friend (not that I know him very well). What really impressed me was that he made a big effort to meet me in person when he was in my area and when he did meet with me it was to chat and get to know me better. Not to say “So let’s talk about what really matters - your backsliding and rejection of God…”
Mike I apologize for my lack of faith in you; I was a bit nervous you might do that to me. I guess it’s because of my bad experiences with conservative Christians who aren’t interested in having any conversation with me except that one :( (Oh, they might approach it indirectly, but I can tell that’s where they are headed)
Comment by: Mike O
17 02/6/07 1:55 PM | Comment Link |Jeff, you rock! Even if you do dig pastels, I think you’re still manly.
By the way, that shirt wasn’t rose, it was pink.