Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 03.14.2007 /
Mike Clawson recently sent me a link to Michael’s story - Michael is a friend of his. Thanks Mike!
Michael’s story of why he walked away from church might have a familiar ring to some of you.
Michael was raised in church. At the age of nine or ten his Sunday School class was studying the ten plagues. He decided to read the Bible for himself and see what it had to say. He was shocked to read that God’s plan from the outset was to harden Pharaoh’s heart so Pharoah wouldn’t respond to the plagues by letting the Israelites go.
As Michael writes on his blog:
Well that is completely different than what my Sunday School teacher taught me! Here you have, in the very Bible that they are supposedly teaching from, the truth of what really happened.
God and Moses schemed to go to the Pharaoh and ask for the people to be set free. But God is telling Moses up front that God will “harden Pharaoh’s heart” so that he will not let the people go.
This changes the whole story!
Instead of a God who has to show his might to convince the Pharaoh of his greatness, you have a God who is purposefully making the Pharaoh not listen, just so God can come along and inflict great pain and suffering on the people of Egypt.That’s not loving, caring or kind.
That’s manipulative, conniving and megalomaniacal.If you continue reading the story of the Ten Plagues, you will see that after each plague, Pharaoh gives in and wants to let the people go. But God comes along and “hardens his heart”, so that Pharaoh says no and God gets to inflict more plagues upon innocent people. All of this unneeded pain and suffering, just so people will remember how “great” God is (Jos 2:9-11; 9:9; Isa 4:8; 6:6).
When Michael went to his Sunday School teachers with questions about what he read, this is how they responded:
“You can’t understand God,” they told me. “He works in mysterious ways,” they chanted through plastic smiles. I could never get an answer to these questions. I was also greeted with quizzical smiles and the mantra, “You have to have faith.”
Michael continued to read the Bible and found all sorts of things (detailed on his blog) which made him unable to believe the teaching of his church that it’s the Word of God. Unable to get satisfactory answers from his church leaders or from Christian books, he eventually walked away from church altogether.
That’s where part 1 of Michael’s story ends. In part 2, “I came back”, he explains what brought him back to church.
After I left church, I did not miss it. Not one iota. But as I’ve grown older, I’ve wanted my family to attend a place where there is no bigotry, everybody is accepted for who they are and there can be intelligent debate. I want the Sunday morning ritual, taking a cue from the Egyptians, to be a literal renewal of my spirit and self. I believe that while we can’t have a reconciliation between science, reason and religion, we can reconcile spirituality (defined as “of or relating to the mind or intellect”) and reason.
Also, and this may actually be the bigger reason, I wanted my kids to have some sort of religious instruction. Insteading of being indoctrinated in one swath of religion, I wanted them to experience it all. My hopes in this, was that they would be able to make the choice for themselves. We as parents, Jen and I, have already planted the seeds of this. We talk all the time to our kids about different gods and different religions. If it starts raining, Ethan will tell you that it’s because Zeus is sad and he’s crying. The other day, after chasing Ethan around, he commented that one day he wanted to be fast like me. I explained to him that I wasn’t necessarily fast, but that I was in Mercury’s favor today. We also always state things such as, “this is what some people believe….but some people believe this….” Jen and I always balance it out, so that we are never telling him what is right, but giving him different perspectives on peoples beliefs. Hopefully this way, he will be able to use his own critical thinking skills to decided what’s best for him.
Michael and his family started exploring their options. They now attend Live Oak Unitarian Universalist Church in Austin, TX. Michael describes his first time there (which you can read about in detail on his blog) as “awesome, a breath of fresh air”.
Unlike the church of his childhood, this church works for him and his family because
the UU church, in contrast to all the other churches, is based on what brings us together as a people, instead of what separates us. I believe in one less god than most people, which means I really can’t get together and worship with those people because they don’t want me unless I convert to their beliefs. Those are things that separate us. I want a communal place that brings us together as a people. This is my sacred covenant as a humanist. Christians, buddhists, hindus, wiccans, and atheists all have things in common, and it’s those similarities that should be celebrated. Not our differences. I want a place where all ideas can be critically evaluated and discussed. A place for healthy discourse. A place to learn and grow, together. A place that will help teach my kids about all the different world religions, without putting one above the other. Once again, focusing on what brings us together.
Comment by: Karen
1Cool. Thanks for your story.
I have zero desire to attend church at this moment, but it is good to know that if I ever get to a place where I miss that type of gathering and community, the UU is a good place to look for it.
:-)
Comment by: Mike C
2Thanks for posting my friend’s story! Funny thing, I was in a lot of those same Sunday School classes with Michael back in the day (we go back that far) but I guess I must not have been as critically reflective as he was as a preteen. :) I don’t remember asking those kind of questions until much later.
I can identify with his questions though. I’ve wrestled with them myself; and while I’ve found different answers to them than he has, I can still definitely see why he chose the path that he did.
Comment by: Julie Marie
3Good story. I understand wanting to be part of a community that meets regularly - most especially one that focuses on what brings us together and how we can work together on common points of interest, despite differing beliefs.
Those who have been posting or reading here for awhile know I’ve had subterranean questions for some time, and left my conservative evangelical church just over a year ago as I explored my faith issues (or my issues with my faith, I guess I could say) One of my friends who lives down the street, who I don’t see nearly enough of (especially since she has an age and attitude appropriate boy for my son to play with!) stopped me the other day to ask if I was still attending my old church. She was shocked when I said not for the last year. (I keep this kinda quiet as my first foray into disclosure ended poorly and painfully). Anyways, she was asking because she is under severe pressure from her mom to attend to some religious education for her children - ages 3 & 5…and she doesn’t like the church she’s going to. She doesn’t like what she’s hearing, and was thinking my old church would be more open and liberal. I took a deep breath and told her don’t let the electric guitars, slang, and casual clothing fool you….that church is very conservative in its theology and soon you will be learning how to be a bibically submissive wife. Then she asked about the UU church her boss attends. I told her I’d be happpy to go try out a service or a series that looked interesting…shes got lots of questions and she doesn’t want to hear the standard line…so anyways, we chatted about my year of questioning, and what I’ve come to believe, for now, making it clear that what others believe coudl be just as valid as anything because what do we really know about god for sure…and she just about burst into tears and threw her arms around me.
It was such a good feeling to listen and respond to someones spiritual quesitons with out feeling a need to direct them to the proper response, we just had a brief conversatin about where we’re at and why…without any pretense to superior knowledge or power…just two friends pondering our take on the unknowable I am. It was one of the cooler momments I’ve had since being a little more vocal about my belief system as it stands today. So we’ll go to the UU church from time to time. Leave the hubbies home –her hubby has problems with wiccans, and my hubby has problems with bleeding heart liberals, both of which I suspect will be in abundance.
Comment by: NCxian
4This is very cool, Julie. Once you become transparent about yourself, I think like-minded people just sort of show up. I was able to do it within my Christian community, but I know that was not the case with yours. So it happens on your street. Very cool!
Comment by: Laura M.
5Michael’s story sounds very similar to mine. I’m an atheist who left church in my teens, and haven’t felt an ounce of regret about it for 22 years. This past December I began attending a UU church and I love it.
I try to teach my children about religion in much the same way Michael describes.
Nothing wrong with celebrating differences. Diversity is kewl !
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
6Julie Marie, I had a great conversation with one of my neighbors this week too.
I so appreciate emotionally uncomplicated conversations!
Like Karen, I’m not interested in going to church in the near future. I’ve been to a few UU things (a one-on-one talk with a UU minister, a 4 week course about Jesus taught by him, his leaving party when he moved and a ‘meet the new minister’ event) and everyone at those was very friendly.
Comment by: Eliza
7Julie - I’m so glad that conversation with your neighbor was so open and turned out so mutually supportive! Do let us know what you think of the UU services you attend. (And I hope this means your sons will be getting together more often to play!)
As some of you know, I’m a lifelong atheist. I tried Sunday school around age 8 or 9, but like Michael what I read in the Bible gave a very different impression than the upbeat, somewhat syrupy stories taught in Sunday school. (And I only got as far as Genesis 4!) I started attending a fairly small UU church not far from my home last July, after hearing about UU from some people here (including TXatheist, who attends one in Austin), and I’ve really enjoyed it. I became a member this January, and have been delighted to attend a few “Mondays with the Minister” (Bible studies & studies of other religious literature) - hoo boy does it fit better with my approach to life & learning than the Lutheran (LCMS) class I took! I’ll try to write about the UU Bible study sessions in a few weeks.
Some of the several reasons I started going there include finding a community of people willing to consider a variety of possibilities about the meaning of life, the universe, and everything, including the role of people. Most of the people at the UU church I’m going to would probably classify themselves as humanists, with or without any one of a number of religious mini-labels. The minister considers himself a UU Christian. I don’t know of any Wiccans there, but that may be only because they don’t wear signs identifying themselves as such! Anyway, the people there - and the tone and ambience there - are wonderful for me. (FYI, I’ve been scarce lately, trying to figure out what’s going on in my marriage since a figurative bombshell dropped a few weeks ago. Another, unexpected, reason I’m glad to have made connections in this local UU community recently.)
Comment by: Laura M.
8Ooh Eliza, please do tell us all about your UU Bible study. That would be just perfect.
Comment by: MTran
9I have a strong affection and respect for the UU churches despite my infrequent attendance, even when I was a believer.
When I read something like this it saddens and troubles me:
This was not my experience at all when growing up and attending church, Sunday school, and Bible school lessons every week. Now I attended a lot of different churches since my family moved around a lot. But I never was treated this way even when I was in kindergarten.
Am I the only atheist who had positive experiences with the churches of their youth? Really, when I questioned the meaning or morality of Bible stories, I was encouraged rather than condescended to. The adults were patient with me and usually responded with something like, “This is the best understanding we have right now, though some people think differently. You might find a better answer someday and when you do, you can share it with us.”
Based on the brief biographical sketches I’ve read from people who escaped from extreme fundamentalist religions, those religions do even more harm to their followers than I would have otherwise expected.
Comment by: NCxian
10That has been my experience as I have participated in the conversations here over the last . . . year! (Wow, where did that time go?) It is probably the most valuable thing I have learned. As a result, I am more likely to speak up in my own community when I see somebody too “certain” that they are right and everybody else is wrong. I realize it is not just stupid but also potentially affecting folks who are sensitive to that kind of thing in a harmful way.
Comment by: Michael James
11Thank you to everybody for commenting! I appreciate the support.
Mike C. -
Oh those days were a blast! While true that my questions started young, a lot of the heavier questions kicked in when Lenny took over (after you went up to Traverse City.) I don’t necessarily know if that fault lies on Lenny, but while he always wanted to be your “chum”, he never really had any spiritual answers to give. Not what I was looking for in those fragile pre-teen days.
Also, in this piece, I really focused on what happened at church that pushed me away without talking about the enviromental pressures. At the same time all of this was really reaching a head, I was starting to read a lot of Philip K. Dick and other authors that looked at humanity through post-modern tinted glasses. It was very startling and hard for me to balance these two views of humanity: the view of the church and God and the view of the world around me. They didn’t congeal and it seemed that the church spent an awful lot of time trying to make their religion fit into the world.
I remember when Lenny & Pam would take the youth group down to the soup kitchen to help out the homelss, Lenny would always tell everybody that we were doing it because God wanted us to share his love. I would ask Lenny, “Can’t we just do it because we care about our fellow humans? What if there was no God? Would you still care enough to do it?” Lenny responded that if we didn’t have “God to show us how to love,” then we wouldn’t know how to care for each other (and have no reason to.) That did not make any sense, whatsoever, to me.
Julie -
It’s enlightening to read your story. I think the UU church sounds perfect for what you are looking for!
Laura -
It’s been over a decade for me and when I finally made the plunge to go back, I was terrified. But it has become a wonderful experience and I can’t recommend it enough.
Also, I think it’s great what you are doing for your children. As parents, one of the greatest gifts we can give our children is the ability to think critically. This means questioning everything. The early we start that with children, the better!
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
12Michael, thanks for stopping by!
Comment by: Julie Marie
13I sure will :)
Comment by: Mike C
14Hey Michael,
Funny how different our life experiences were after I moved away. Rather than a nice but non-intellectual youth leader, my biggest adult Christian influences during those early teen years were all the college guys that came to camp every summer (people like AA, Tim and the rest that I’m sure you remember from your summer as an SMT). They taught me to pursue the questions and enjoy debate and discussion.
And I didn’t get exposed to postmodern ideas until college. I think by then I was able to see how Christianity and postmodernism fit together (even though most conservative Christians still seem to think they are opposites and enemies). Far from being a challenge to my faith, I think postmodern ideas actually saved mine.
Anyhow, it’s interesting how early influences in life can make such a huge difference. Or maybe not such a huge difference. Considering where we both started, you and I are probably still a lot closer to each other in our outlook on life and faith now than either of us are to the outlook we started with back at good old First Baptist. :)
Comment by: Rachel
15I agree, Michael!