Mike Clawson recently sent me a link to Michael’s story - Michael is a friend of his. Thanks Mike!
Michael’s story of why he walked away from church might have a familiar ring to some of you.
Michael was raised in church. At the age of nine or ten his Sunday School class was studying the ten plagues. He decided to read the Bible for himself and see what it had to say. He was shocked to read that God’s plan from the outset was to harden Pharaoh’s heart so Pharoah wouldn’t respond to the plagues by letting the Israelites go.
As Michael writes on his blog:
Well that is completely different than what my Sunday School teacher taught me! Here you have, in the very Bible that they are supposedly teaching from, the truth of what really happened.
God and Moses schemed to go to the Pharaoh and ask for the people to be set free. But God is telling Moses up front that God will “harden Pharaoh’s heart” so that he will not let the people go.
This changes the whole story!
Instead of a God who has to show his might to convince the Pharaoh of his greatness, you have a God who is purposefully making the Pharaoh not listen, just so God can come along and inflict great pain and suffering on the people of Egypt.That’s not loving, caring or kind.
That’s manipulative, conniving and megalomaniacal.If you continue reading the story of the Ten Plagues, you will see that after each plague, Pharaoh gives in and wants to let the people go. But God comes along and “hardens his heart”, so that Pharaoh says no and God gets to inflict more plagues upon innocent people. All of this unneeded pain and suffering, just so people will remember how “great” God is (Jos 2:9-11; 9:9; Isa 4:8; 6:6).
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By Siamang
With Jim and Matt’s book coming out, as well as Hemant’s, we expect to see a number of new visitors to this site. I think for the most part, the people viewing this site have been here for a good part of the conversation, but pretty soon that may change a little bit.
Those who have been here are familiar with this conversation and what makes it special and as far as my experience on the internet goes, unique. This has been and continues to be the one conversation where Christians and atheists are really learning how to talk with one another.
As I said, I think it’s unique. A conversation between Christians and atheists that has required very little moderation. One that seeks understanding rather than “winning” an internet argument. It’s not always perfect, and I wouldn’t count myself as having a perfect record in this regard. But it’s so much better than anything else on the internet that it’s an oasis.
So as we welcome new visitors, or just as a reminder to ourselves, I’d like all of us to share the rules of thumb of this conversation. These can be welcome messages, or things we’ve learned about our discussion here with people of different beliefs.
My hope is to highlight some of these in upcoming posts, to bring new visitors up to speed on what this conversation is all about. Imagine someone new coming to this site, a Christian or an atheist, or anyone else with a different belief. What’s something you’d say to them to bring them into the conversation?
Here’s a start: Don’t assume, ask. Don’t assuming you know the other person’s view based on your own past experiences or assumptions. Don’t start with “Well since you’re a Christian, you believe I’m going to Hell.” Don’t start with “Well, since you’re an atheist, you believe that humans have no more worth than animals.”
These are merely statements of the questioner’s unwillingness to open their ears and understand the other. Don’t assume you know the beliefs of someone else because “all you atheists are alike” or “all you Christians are alike.”
I’m sure I’ve made assumptions about other’s beliefs in the past and have come to regret it. This is great advice for listening.
-Siamang