Posted by Ir (Helen) on: 05.22.2007 /
Jim was invited to speak at the Secular Student Union of the University of Washington yesterday. Steve Lewis was there and has written about it on his blog, Spirit Farmer
Last night I attended an event with the University of Washington Secular Student Union , co-sponsored by InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. They brought Jim Henderson in to talk about his recent experiences of buying the souls of atheists, writing books with atheists, being nice to atheists, etc. He nailed it. It was the best I’ve seen Jim speak - probably more transparent with them than he is with a lot of the pastors he speaks to. After the event, about 8 of us went and ate Indian food for a couple hours and continued the conversation.
I have to say, I was super impressed by the students there (most of whom were atheists). They’re not looking to win arguments, make religious people mad, or get militant about changing the Constitution. The questions they asked Jim were insightful and genuine. It was a good time, definitely.
Jim also told me a little about what’s in the works for this year’s Off The Map event in November. It’s a bit of a different format from the past couple of years, but sounds creative, energetic, and musically delicious.
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Comment by: Siamang
1 05/22/07 5:42 PM | Comment Link |No doubt about it, Jim’s a force for changing minds and changing hearts.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
2 05/22/07 7:09 PM | Comment Link |One reason I enjoy speaking to atheists is that they’re reassured rather than offended by lack of committment to religion.
One young woman said
” I never thought I’d say this to a Christian but… keep preaching”
Comment by: Benjamin Ady
3 05/22/07 9:22 PM | Comment Link |I got there quite late, so I missed a good bit of what was said. It was really kewl to hear Jim kind of saying what he really thought right out, because it was such an open environment. A couple things I really liked:
Jim talked about how no matter what we think, it’s important to not compare “our best” to “their worst”
A young man talked about growing up in a really conservative baptist church, and how hard it was to get out of his head the thought that he, and/or others, would go to hell if they didn’t maintain a correct belief. He asked Jim how Jim would respond to someone saying he was going to burn in hell for failing to believe “correctly”? Jim empathized with the young man and went on to say that if such a god exists, who sends people to hell for incorrect belief, then he, Jim, wasn’t super interested and would probably end up burning in hell with all the other unbelieving or incorrectly believing people. I’m quoting from memory here so it’s not exact, but I think I got the gist of it right.
Jim was talking a bit about how there’s certainly plenty of ammo for anyone who wants to critique the church, and a young man, I think perhaps the atheist who helped organize the meeting, said “Well, you’ve talked a lot about how there’s plenty of ammo for critizing the church–that the church has lots of bad sides and has done and continues to just not get it in a lot of ways. So what about athiests? What are we doing wrong–what ammo are we providing as fodder for legitimate critique?” Jim seemed very pleased by this question, and talked about how he couldn’t even get Christians to ask him questions like that if he paid them. He went on to talk about how there are fundamentalists everywhere–by which he meant, he said, people who get afraid and then become mean and bigoted–christian fundamentalists and atheist fundamentalists and fundamentalists in any other camp you care to name.
Jim was saying he really like Habitat for Humanity, because it’s about what you *do* rather than what you believe, and that they don’t have any orthodoxy except the orthodoxy of the hammmer–if you can hit a nail with a hammer, you’re in. But they do have follower of Jesus roots, so they do this one thing which is that they pray over the house together after they’ve built it. So one young man pointed out that he knew of some atheists who actually wouldn’t work with habitat because they do have the … very gentle connection with following jesus, and why didn’t they just give that up so they could include even more people. Jim talked about how habitat gets criticized by lots of people in the christian community for not talking enough, and that a lot of their financial backing comes from non religioius non christian sources, and that maybe the fundamentalist atheists who are against it from one end should get together with the fundamentalist christians who are against it from the other end and form an organization called “Why Habitat for Humanity Sucks”, which drew a laugh from the audience.
He talked about the macro business of religions and of christianity, and how it’s come to be all about beliefs, and beliefism. He talked about how this business has latched onto the phrase which Jesus used one time in a secret meeting with one other person at night: “Born again”, but maybe it would make more sense to use wording which he used thirty times: “Follow me–be my disciple (that is, apprentice–do what I do, and say what I say)”
He talked about how 95% of the time when Jesus talked about hell, it was to religious people, and that he never talked about hell to … non religious, normal, hurting people.
He talked about “non manipulative intentionality”, which he defined as living intentionally, or on purprose, without trying to control the process or the outcomes. He gave credit to Buddhist thought in this idea. I found this very appealing, and would love to hear more about it.
Eliza was there, and he got her to come up front and introduce herself, to say that she was on facutly at the hospital, and to talk a little about how she came to find out about off the map and about her experience with the Lutheran class.
I had a really great conversation with a guy who has a similar background to me in a really conservative baptist church, and who is also a UW student, and I am hoping to reconnect with him ongoingly in the future.
Overall, I’m really glad to have gone to this event. It was very enjoyable. It felt like Jim could be more open and honest about his thoughts and ideas and feelings and goals than it seems like he can normally be in the more … churchish settings where I’ve seem him speak before. That was really … refreshing.
I’m really glad I went.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
4 05/23/07 6:22 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin, thanks for the wonderfully detailed write-up!
The SSU kindly recorded the meeting and we’re working on making the podcast available.
Meanwhile you might be interested to listen to the podcast of Jim speaking at the “God for people who hate church” conference (recorded a couple of weeks ago). I get the impression he was more outspoken than usual there. In fact that was probably the most outspoken he’s been at a public meeting - until Monday!
Comment by: Jim Henderson
5 05/23/07 10:51 AM | Comment Link |Benjamin
I always feel honored when you are in the room
Comment by: Karen
6 05/23/07 2:53 PM | Comment Link |Very cool! It’s so great to hear about this kind of dialogue taking place. Excellent job, all.
Benj, thanks for the write-up. I loved this line:
Ongoingly, I hope you are able to fulfill this desire, and I hope that your future relationship will be of ongoing benefit to you both. :-) [Tee, hee....]
Comment by: Eliza
7 05/23/07 5:02 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for posting this report, & Benj for your additional details on the discussion. And Jim for speaking at this session!
Yes, I was there, & glad I went, though it was a hassle getting out of the house with my son John (we got there late, because we had to go back to get his homework, which he was going to work on during the session, then didn’t after all, argh). Then I was distracted because John was squeaking up & down the aisles of the room in his wet shoes, & once those were off he was slithering around on the floor under people’s chairs, & at the end he locked the stalls in the men’s bathroom & hid from me. *Sigh* So I got to crawl on the floor of the men’s bathroom & unlatch the stalls, then go calling his name throughout the building.
Luckily people seemed pretty tolerant, though most of them don’t have kids at home. (Benj, thanks for being so welcoming to my son.)
I’ve never been in the audience to hear Jim talk to a group before (having missed the last November conference due to work in the hospital). It takes a special touch, I think, to get up in front of a group of people with different (potentially hostile) beliefs & talk about what you believe, & what you’ve been doing around that. He did a great job! Very open with the group, really felt like a 2-way street in discussion & questions, & the group was very respectful too, and clearly interested in several aspects of his message, including how to dialogue with those who are different in ways that seem important.
It gave me an idea, too, of just how far Off the Map Jim is now!
I ended up with a brochure for (& invitation to join) the university’s Secular Student Union - which meets weekly at - ironically - The Chapel on the Ave.
BTW, the evening session was titled “I bought his soul on ebay”, and they sold Hemant’s book at the end. Jim kindly autographed my copy (”To Eliza For Hemant - Jim Henderson”) ;-)
Comment by: Siamang
8 05/23/07 5:24 PM | Comment Link |I guess when you own a guy’s soul, you can autograph books for him.
;-)
Comment by: Benjamin Ady
9 05/23/07 6:55 PM | Comment Link |Jim,
the feeling is mutual =).
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
10 05/23/07 8:07 PM | Comment Link |Thanks for your comments, Eliza.
Siamang, yes, it does seem that way! :)
The SSU podcast is now available
Comment by: Jim Henderson
11 05/23/07 10:31 PM | Comment Link |just for the record I have been sufficiently educated by my atheist colleagues to know that it is impossible to buy the soul of someone who doesnt have one :-) but hey it’s sells books and always gets a laugh