Posted by Siamang on: 05.22.2007 /
By Siamang
Sometimes in an online discussion on Friendly Atheist I get asked by a Christian why I’m posting in a forum that talks about religion. The jist of the question goes like this. “If you don’t believe in something, just don’t believe in it. Why talk about it all the time?” Often there’s a hint of “you must be awfully attracted to Christianity to want to talk about it a lot…”
Around this time I usually like to point out that it’s an atheist website, and he’s the one who came there for discussion. Heheh.
Anyway, it seems to me that we are discussing these things on websites devoted to those subjects. Do you know what I talk about when I’m not here? Even though to most people interacting here, I’m atheist guy, is that who I really am to people away from this board?
Anyway, here’s where “atheism” falls on my life list right now.
Person
Father
Husband
Friend
Artist
Citizen
Animator
Science fan
Atheist
Amateur magician
Amateur astronomer
…
And to tell the truth, up until I started posting here and blogging seriously, atheism wasn’t even this high on the list. Two years ago if you looked at my posting pattern, you’d notice that I was highly involved in advocating high-tech electrical transportation and wasn’t that interested in atheism at all. Some years before that, I was spending a lot of time and energy on the historic preservation of special-format motion-pictures.
What’s your list?
-Siamang
Comment by: Nina
1That’s an excellent point that I was just discussing with someone else. I hasten to add that it isn’t excellent just because I myself was discussing it (heh heh.)
No one really goes around being atheist. You are just whoever it is you are, doing whatever it is you do, until (and not unless)somebody else makes the having of belief, or a particular belief, a dividing line in some way. Thus, I’m really only atheist when I am talking to the religious (about religion) or when I am talking to other atheists (about religion).
Atheism cannot exist in the absence of faith, otherwise what would be the point? There wouldn’t be anything to be atheist about.
I think the answer to the question of “why talk about it if you don’t believe in it” is the equal and opposite question of “why talk about it if you do?” If it is self-evident, obvious and automatic, then any discussion is pointless.
Comment by: Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
2As a Christian, my identity is in Christ, first and foremost.
…Bernie
Comment by: Stephan
3Christian
Husband
Father
Son
Brother
Friend
Musician
Employee
Little League Coach
Softball Player
I should note that from “Christian” to “Musician” they are grouped tightly, and it drops precipitously after that. I’m not a very good employee (as is proven by all my posting here and other places) and I’m a terrible softball player. I’m not such a bad little league coach, but I don’t have much time for it.
Since the question came up above, I’ll take it one step further. I don’t believe in UFOs, but I also don’t go on the web to argue with those who do. What do you see as the difference between this and atheists posting about atheism and religion?
Comment by: Siamang
4I think it depends on people’s reason for engaging in the conversation.
I know that atheists were largely silent recently, but September 11th and the rise of religious republicanism and the corresponding diminishment in the public forum for respect for secular values has caused a good number of atheists to start speaking up. I really think for a vast majority of atheists it’s fear that’s causing them to speak up and fight back.
They woke up and realized that religious people aren’t leaving them alone. They realized that the word “atheist” was being used to diminish the political power of everyone to the left of Senator Brownback.
Right after 2000, we heard a huge chorus about how Democrats need to be able to better “speak authentically about matters of faith”. We heard how John Kerry wasn’t the right kind of Christian. We heard how secularists and atheists shouldn’t be political activists because it fed into the perception of a “God deficit” in the Democratic party.
This is SCARY, SCARY shit to me. It’s saying, Shut up, Siamang. You are not allowed to express political views if you are not a Christian. It’s saying “you do not share the core values of America, so your ideas about peace, freedom, morality, ethics, the environment, etc are unwelcome.” It says Republicans have won, because they have gotten dems who happen to be atheists to censor themselves, and accept the deep lie that those without faith are worthless in our civic conversation.
So there’s fear. I think a real fear that America is marching backwards. Away from science, away from education, away from leading the world in discovery and research and exploration. And back to home-schooling, young earth studies, anti-environmentalism … basically the view that science and education are dangerous, and young minds are there for molding and shaping by putting them in a tiny box, rather than setting them free.
But for me, that’s not why I blog.
I blog here to improve my communications skills with Christians. I blog here because the places I was chatting about these things were battlegrounds, not places where bridges can be built.
You bet your butt if 85% of Americans believed in UFO’s and they were running the government, and they said anyone who didn’t believe in UFO’s should shut up, and that got said often on political shows and TV news shows…. you BET I’d be blogging with them.
So maybe it is fear after all!
Comment by: Stephan
5Amen, Siamang. That is exactly what I expected to hear, but I wanted to bring it up anyway. I agree that if UFO believers were in the majority and I felt threatened, I would speak up in whatever forum I had.
And you atheists are not alone in fighting the Christian Right. Heck, I used to be one of them, and now I want to drive them out of power as fast as I can. I know we can do better than the last seven years. I suppose Christians in power would not be so bad if they were tolerant and competent, but the current crop is neither.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
6Siamang, I know you’re an atheist but mostly I think of you as “Siamang the Awesome” rather than “Siamang the Atheist” :)
Comment by: Stephan
7I look for Siamang’s name in movie credits!
Comment by: Mike C
8Dude! You were involved in creating Transporters?! Like in Star Trek? Sweet!
;)
Comment by: Siamang
9I understand and appreciate that, and of course welcome everyone who is willing to help provoke a more balanced political situation in our government.
But the problem from the atheist point of view is kind of beyond the “left vs right” deal.
We were told we were worthless in the debate. THAT’S not something we can expect to be rescued from by large numbers of politically liberal believers.
It’s instead something we must assert ourselves: we are of worth.
Comment by: Siamang
10Mike C,
Rather safety regulations for Segway scooters in mixed-use environments.
Comment by: Stephan
11And I thought you might be doing something useful…
Comment by: Siamang
12Hehehe.
Comment by: Jim Henderson
13Siamang
I thought of you and Helen last night. I was invited to speak at the Secular Students Union at University of Washington. The conversation was so rich and far reaching (relationally) and the tone so civil (actually kind is better) that I thought - it was like we were all temporarily transported from our differences into a place of connection.
I thought how well both of you would have fit in this environment and wished you were there to introduce to my newest atheist friends.
I like working with Matt Casper because he defines himself as “curently an atheist” . I think of him as a person who happens to be an atheist.
And due to the circumstances you articulated in an earlier comment he and I now find ourselves trying to represent a “third Place” for people tired of fighting about differences
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
14Jim, I wish I could have been there too. I’m glad it went so well.
Comment by: Siamang
15I love that “currently an atheist.” I may have to steal that.
I’m really happy you’re out doing these things, Jim. Glad it went well!
Comment by: Mike O
16Here’s my list
Christian
Husband
Father
Church leader
Friend
Co-worker
Employee
Movie-goer
Loner
I am trying to move “friend” up a notch on the list. I find myself so busy doing church stuff that I have little time for friends. That can’t be what Jesus had in mind. I don’t want to eliminate it, but I do want to bring it into it’s proper balance.
For “loner” at the bottom of the list, I love people and I love to be around people and I love to do things with people. But I really value my alone time, too. If I could be completely alone about a day a week, I think that would be great. In fact, I commute about 2 1/2 hours a day and I love it for that very reason … I’m alone. It gives me time to breathe.
Comment by: M Wms
17This is my list today …. tomorrow (or in a minute) it could be different:
1. Jesus-follower (often just Jesus-admirer) and thinker about God
2. Observer
3. Lover
4. Friend
5. Dog mom
6. Listener
7. Student of human nature
8. Writer/Artist
9. Sister
10. Meditator
11. Sleeper, dreamer
12. Seeker of beauty and mystery
13. Walker
14. Gardener
15. Yearner
Comment by: Mike O
18I meant to say “Jesus follower” instead of “Christian.”
Old habits ….
Comment by: Karen
19Off-topic Alert:
Mike O., it sounds like you are an “introvert,” which I am also.
I like that word much better than “loner,” which has negative connotations. (Whenever a serial murderer is arrested, for instance, his neighbors always say something like - “Well, he was a loner and kept to himself.”)
Introversion is a recognized personality type, whose opposite of course is extroversion. Introvert brains actually process information differently from extrovert brains!
I started looking into this when my older son was young because he’s very introverted and parents tend to worry about their introvert offspring. I had no reason to worry, it turns out; my son is a terrific guy and has done well in everything. It did help to understand his personality and how much alone time he needed, however.
Psychologist Marti Olsen Laney has written a couple books about introverts, including The Introvert Advantage. I highly recommend them.
Comment by: Mike O
20I’m actually both introverted and extroverted. I’ve heard it defined this way … you can tell if you’re and itnrovert or an extrovert by what you do to “recharge your batteries.” Introverts need to disappear to recharge (which I do) and extroverts need to party (which I also do.) It kind of depends on the day.
If I never do anything fun with other people, life for me is not worth living if it’s not any fun and I don’t have people around. If I’m alone too much, I get depressed and REALLY bored.
But at the same time, I recharge when I’m alone.
Maybe I’m just psychotic??
Comment by: Mike O
21I want to add one to mine … I’m a student of people. I love to figure out what makes them tick, and why they do the things they do and why they act the way they act.
Good or bad, ALL people are interesting to me.
Comment by: Karen
22The standard way to determine your level of extro/inversion is to ask whether you gain energy from being around people (extrovert) or whether you gain energy by being alone (introvert).
Even introverts love to party and get bored and depressed if they’re alone TOO much. But they do tolerate (dare I say enjoy?) being alone much better than extroverts, who get all their energy from being around other people.
Comment by: Mike O
23I probably lean towards introvert.
Comment by: Julie Marie
24hmmm…
mother
woman
listener
encourager
leader
follower
wife
thinker
student of creation
and introvert
sister
friend
daughter