Jim was invited to speak at the Secular Student Union of the University of Washington yesterday. Steve Lewis was there and has written about it on his blog, Spirit Farmer
Posted in A Cacophony of Posts, Ir (Helen) | 11 Comments »Last night I attended an event with the University of Washington Secular Student Union , co-sponsored by InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. They brought Jim Henderson in to talk about his recent experiences of buying the souls of atheists, writing books with atheists, being nice to atheists, etc. He nailed it. It was the best I’ve seen Jim speak – probably more transparent with them than he is with a lot of the pastors he speaks to. After the event, about 8 of us went and ate Indian food for a couple hours and continued the conversation.
I have to say, I was super impressed by the students there (most of whom were atheists). They’re not looking to win arguments, make religious people mad, or get militant about changing the Constitution. The questions they asked Jim were insightful and genuine. It was a good time, definitely.
Jim also told me a little about what’s in the works for this year’s Off The Map event in November. It’s a bit of a different format from the past couple of years, but sounds creative, energetic, and musically delicious.
By Siamang
Sometimes in an online discussion on Friendly Atheist I get asked by a Christian why I’m posting in a forum that talks about religion. The jist of the question goes like this. “If you don’t believe in something, just don’t believe in it. Why talk about it all the time?” Often there’s a hint of “you must be awfully attracted to Christianity to want to talk about it a lot…”
Around this time I usually like to point out that it’s an atheist website, and he’s the one who came there for discussion. Heheh.
Anyway, it seems to me that we are discussing these things on websites devoted to those subjects. Do you know what I talk about when I’m not here? Even though to most people interacting here, I’m atheist guy, is that who I really am to people away from this board?
Anyway, here’s where “atheism” falls on my life list right now.
Person
Father
Husband
Friend
Artist
Citizen
Animator
Science fan
Atheist
Amateur magician
Amateur astronomer
…
And to tell the truth, up until I started posting here and blogging seriously, atheism wasn’t even this high on the list. Two years ago if you looked at my posting pattern, you’d notice that I was highly involved in advocating high-tech electrical transportation and wasn’t that interested in atheism at all. Some years before that, I was spending a lot of time and energy on the historic preservation of special-format motion-pictures.
What’s your list?
-Siamang
Posted in A Cacophony of Posts | 24 Comments »Sometimes you wonder, are we getting through to anyone?
Right now, Friendly Atheist.com is getting a lotta traffic… much of it not getting the idea of the title of the page and blasting through the culture of listening and sharing that Hemant has tried to foster there.
On one discussion, a first-time poster named Axel wrote in part:
One thing is for sure, we must all die and if there’s a God, what then? Continue to seek the truth in your own way to discover why you are here and what happens when your time is up – and it will come. Death and taxes are inevitable.. God Bless you all. – Axel.
I responded with:
Axel, please tell us about yourself. This is usually a place for listening and sharing. I think you have come here to prove something or bait someone into a debate.
This site has been inundated with new posters recently who are contributing to a more rancorous tone. I hope that you will join us in attempting to make this place a place where listening is more important than proving something.
Richard Wade responded in part:
Please read Siamang’s response to you with an open mind and open heart. Don’t worry about being open; those beliefs that are important to you will not be in jeopardy. The only thing that might change is your attitude toward people who are different from you. Since the airing of the “debate” between Cameron/Carson and Sapient/Kelly this site has been visited by many people who seem to be spoiling for a fight, looking for a victory, hoping to score a conversion, or other kinds of motives that I consider aggression. Siamang has been making a heroic effort to respond to many, many of these often very negative commentors by offering positive and intelligent dialogue in return. A few of the new visitors are responding in kind, and many are not. What Siamang is doing is out of his loving and sincere heart. But I think he’s getting exhausted, so talk to me too.
It’s been 9 days since we posted those responses, and we’ve heard nothing more from Axel or any other new visitors on that thread making any comments on our civility and hospitality after Axel’s veiled threats of death and damnation.
Richard Wade also wrote this, from this discussion:
Sadly a few people from any group will live up to the negative stereotypes that other groups hold against them, whether it’s atheists, Christians or whatever. There are just enough to keep the bigotry going. For instance, many people think all atheists are rude and hostile to people of faith. I try hard to not confirm their negative expectations by my own conduct because such stereotypes hurt everyone. I strive to remain patient and respectful even when it’s not returned in kind. Hostility begets hostility on both sides and opportunity for understanding is lost.
In the past few days, I attempted to run a charitable remembrance of Jerry Falwell, and even defended a call for peace and respect in regard to his passing. Asking atheists to please be more respectful.
I’ve posted that I dislike the shenanigans of Brian Sapient and the Rational Response Squad, including their “Day of Reason” blood drive.
Things have gotten bad there, recently. To the point that I had decided to bow out of conversations that were growing more and more rancorous and I found myself losing my patience:
I can see that discussions here have taken a sharp turn for the worse since Hemant started running articles about Comfort and Cameron, and their fanbase has arrived.
On Off-the-Map, I found a community of Christians I am very proud to know. They are kind, loving, very thoughtful and very articulate people with a great deal of charity in their hearts. They speak with love, not with anger. They come to lift up other people, not condemn them.
Later in the thread, which had devolved into multiple shouting matches about everything from evolution, to nazis to abortion I wrote this:
Jon.
I’m going to respond because it’s the polite thing to do when you’ve written to me directly.
I’ve decided to no longer take part in the current discussions spawned from the Cameron/Comfort stories. They have become too rancorous and they’re completely opposite of what the Friendly Atheist culture is about. This is exactly the kind of discussion I’ve come here to get away from. There are a million and one places on the internet where atheists and Christians can argue about evolution, each with smug, self-gratified tones. This place usually is different.
I do hope you stick around if you are interested in dialogues where listening is more important than proving something. We used to have a lot more of that before the current influx of posters that the Nightline story attracted.
Hopefully that positive tone will return soon. Hopefully you will decide to stick around for it, and you’ll be a positive contributor to it.
Siamang,
So it’s cool to challenge a Christian when he brings up facts about the gaping holes in logic regarding evolution just so long as he doesn’t defend himself? And then back out of it by taking the “holier than thou” approach when he does?
If that is what the “community” is about, then I don’t think I’ll be sticking around. The irenic atmosphere that you think you have is a facade because it is only irenic just so long as everyone smiles and nods and no one makes any claim to know anything. Post modernism at its best. Welcome to the brave new world.
Jon
Well, Richard Wade is right…. I am getting exhausted. I expend myself attempting to meet vitriol with kindness, bile with a welcoming spirit and even explicit damnation with an open heart and a forgiving tone.
And one by one, every day, more first-time posters log in to preach at us and leave and we positive voices (and this includes Christians too) just cannot match the continuing onslaught of people whose sole desire is to make “Friendly Atheist” just as bitter and loud and annoying as everywhere ELSE on the internet where people argue without listening.
I am coming to a feeling of understanding more about how emergent church Christians must feel. How do you even talk about Christ in such a horrible asmosphere, except in the bubble of your own church, surrounded by the like-minded? How can you bring Christ into your daily life in the larger world, when the well of public discourse has been so poisoned?
Others at Friendly Atheist are with me in trying to set a better example. But I really do wonder if we’re getting through to anyone at all. Folks just post whatever they want, then abandon the site after they set off their flame war bombs.
And then even our own beloved Mike O asked this question in a follow up to his post “The Tide is Turning”.
I was just asking if atheists distance themselves from your more antagonistic spokespersons. I mean, don’t you ever say, “Geez, I wish he wouldn’t say/do that … it makes us look bad.”
Oh man! Sometimes I feel like I’m saying nothing BUT that!
Anyway, I’m getting frustrated. Is there any point to being a friendly atheist when people just want to see you angry so they can have a good old online scrap?
Can anyone here say that it’s done an iota of good?
Posted in A Cacophony of Posts | 15 Comments »