Posted by Mike O on: 07.17.2007 /
Someone just pointed me to this Rick Warren interview and I think it’s a ray of hope for the church. It’s good to see someone who has money thrust upon him who has the wherewithal to stay free from it’s grip. And with the influence he has been given with other Christians, his words carry a lot of weight.
I’m looking for a second reformation. The first reformation of the church 500 years ago was about beliefs. This one is going to be about behavior. The first one was about creeds. This one is going to be about deeds. It is not going to be about what does the church believe, but about what is the church doing.
First, we decided we would not change our lifestyle one bit no matter how much money came in. So I still live in the same house I’ve lived in for 15 years and I still drive the same Ford truck, have the same two suits, I don’t have a guest home, I don’t have a yacht, I don’t own a beach house, we just said that we aren’t going to use the money on ourselves.
Second, I stopped taking a salary from the church.
Third, I added up all the church had paid me over the past 25 years and gave it all back.
Talk about putting your money where your mouth is!
Comment by: Rachel
1Thanks for sharing that article, Mike! I’m very encouraged by what has happened in Rick Warren’s ministry because he has a tremendous impact on other evangelical pastors. At the Baptist church I used to attend, several of our ministers went to Saddleback Church for training. Then our normally very conservative church formed a partnership with the local HIV Alliance. And I don’t think that would have happened with out Rick Warren’s influence.
I have thought many times, though, that I really wish Rick Warren’s social action awakening had happened BEFORE he wrote “The Purpose-Driven Life.” So many socially and politically conservative Christians read that book and it makes basically no mention of the issues of global poverty, HIV/AIDS, and environmental stewardship than Rick Warren now speaks out about. I really hope Rick writes another best-selling book about those issues. So many Religious Right types (like I used to be) need to be jolted out of their comfort zones and Rick is somebody they will listen to.
Comment by: Siamang
2Something tells me it wouldn’t be the bestseller it is if it had.
I think now is the time for Warren to write a follow-up. His foot’s in the door.
Comment by: Marty SB
3Putting Rachel’s and Siamang’s comments together - maybe Rick’s work and calling is coming together exactly in a way that might best help make the world a better place.
I think Siamang is right - had Rick written a book that included the more liberal aspects of who has subsequently become - it probably would not have ever gotten credibility/acceptance with the religious right and Rachels former church may not have been receptive to the AIDS program they have now adopted.
Rick now seems to have had a conversion experience that is somewhat different than what is normally described as a religious conversion experience - and his personal actions put tremendous credibility to the very important and good causes that he now is making a major difference with. I find it very interesting and positive that his new causes find equal support from a wide spectrum of believers and non-believers. It brings us back to where a lot of the early emphasis was on this board and what brought many Christian and Athiests on this board to gain respect and appreciation for one another - namely - we are drawn together to make the world a better place. When we help make the world a better place together - we seem to become more open and respectful of the other persons beliefs or non-beliefs. I know I have.
Comment by: Doreen A Mannion
4Hooray for Rick Warren. Coincidentally, I just finished reading an article on Bishop TD Jakes in the latest issue of Christian Century. The article concludes that it is too early to know whether Jakes is only a proselytizer for the prosperity gospel. I do not find it too early, as you’ll see by my letter to the editor.
To the Editor:
I am responding to Jonathan L. Walton’s article “Empowered” in the July 10, 2007, issue.
I wish I could agree that it is too early to dismiss Bishop Jakes as “only a proselytizer for the prosperity gospel.” After first seeing him on Larry King Live, then reading his very helpful book, “Ten Commandments of Working in a Hostile Environment,” I went to hear him preach.
After 90 minutes of an uplifting, exhortative message, Jakes’ mood changed dramatically. He stated that since God had moved him to speak on Scripture 723 (I do not recall which book), anyone who wanted blessings from God must immediately bring him $723. That’s right, seven HUNDRED twenty-three dollars. The spiritual fire he helped build in me in the preceding 90 minutes was extinguished in that moment.
The elderly woman next to me was clearly distressed as we watched the multitudes, mostly female, bring forth their checks for $723. “Honey,” she said, “my life is in such dire straights right now, I could use me some blessings.” I hesitated, then said, “Mam, I haven’t been in seminary very long, but there’s one thing I can tell you. This message is not Biblical. You cannot buy, and should not try to buy, blessings from God.”
The woman sobbed softly. “Really?” she asked. “Really,” I replied. She slowly rose, wiped her eyes, and left the church. I went to my car and was physically ill the next 3 days.
poetcomic.blogspot.com
Comment by: Karen
5Good for Rick Warren for sticking with his comfortable, Orange County lifestyle and eschewing the trappings of a publishing bonanza that must have made him a millionaire many times over. Most pastors, of course, cannot afford to do things like give their salaries back - but he’s in that position and I applaud him.
I sincerely hope the man is right, but honestly this “call for reformation” bugs me a bit. All the time I was involved in the church, it seems like there was a constant drum-beat for the Next Big Thing. A new reformation. A new Great Revival. National repentance. The Y2K apocalypse. The final push to bring the gospel to every tribe and nation by 2000. It was always something!
I found it rather exhausting. If Christians are persuaded they are following Jesus and doing what they’re called to do, why not be content with it and just carry on, shoulders to the plow kind of thing? Why the striving for a Big Showdown all the time?
I guess it’s just human nature.
Comment by: Rachel
6Doreen, as a sister in Christ I want to say thank you for taking a stand against this manipulation and exploitation.
Comment by: Mike O
7I think there’s a big difference here … I think this time the church isn’t trying to start something, rather she’s noticing a change in the tide. There is no great catalyst or banner-waver for this reformation. I think something is changing, and the church is seeing it.
I attributie it to a spiritual change or correction God is bringing to his people, rather than something God’s people are bringing to each other.
But with that said, I don’t understand the problem with the others, either. What’s wrong with a massive group of people rallying around a cause? Isn’t that the nature of organizations? We’re doing it here … rallying around the cause of making the world a better place (MTWABP) and actually listening to each other. People joining together to accomplish something isn’t a bad thing. You may not have bought into their goal, but the fact that they had one isn’t inherently wrong.
Comment by: Mark
8I think I’m with Karen on the issue of the Next Big Thing. In 30 years in the church I’ve seen every new big thing come and go. What is necessary is simply for believers to press on day in and day out - and for visionary leaders to teach that kind of discipleship - instead of waiting for some new movement.
Certainly “people joining together to accomplish something” is a great thing, and we should do that, but that is most effective when it flows out of the discipleship I’m speaking about.
And Warren may be right, that such a thing is coming. But if so, it will be because individual Christians are becoming such disciples instead of waiting for the next big thing.
Comment by: Mike O
9Personally, I think that’s what’s happening. People, Christians in fact, are eschewing the status quo and looking for what God really wants. People are starting to want to be called “Jesus followers” now rather than “Christians.” I think that says a lot.
Comment by: Karen
10That’s exactly what I feel too, Mark.
The problem for me with the Next Big Thing is that we were always striving towards it, planning for it, talking about it, rallying around it, praying for it. It was as though if only we people of god had enough faith, god would bring IT about.
And then, it never really seemed to happen. That promised Great Revival - not so much. That Jesus Coming Back by 2000 - oh well. But that really wouldn’t be acknowledged, because by that time we’d be all about the Next Big New Thing.
In the end, like I said, it was not only exhausting but it left me (and clearly I was something of an anomaly in the Christian fold) feeling like … we must have failed. [Eventually, of course, I changed my perspective on that.]
The idea of inspirational leaders teaching everyday devotion to god and service to humanity, with no faddish movements or striving toward the apocalypse, was the most appealing thing about the more liberal churches I visited after leaving evangelicalism.
Comment by: Mark
11That kind of waiting and anticipation leaves one exhausted, and I sense, as Mike is indicating, that God’s people are weary of it and ready to move on. The hard work of discipleship - particularly discipleship in community - energizes one instead of leaving one drained.
Comment by: Doreen Mannion
12thanks Rachel. I can’t overstate how much the whole episode shook me up.