Posted by Mike O on: 07.19.2007 /
Siamang posted a link to his story here, and in it, he said something that really turned a few lights on for me for why it’s so hard for some people who don’t believe in God to believe in God.
“I’ve heard it explained this way: Suppose someone said “I have $50 in my pocket, in cash, right now.” You wouldn’t question it. If that same person said he had $500, you’d think maybe he ought not to be carrying so much cash, but still, you wouldn’t think he was very strange. If he said $5000, you’d wonder, and maybe look at his pockets to see if they were bulging. If he said he had $500,000,000, in cash, in his pockets, you’d think he was absolutely loco, and you would require him to show you before you believed him. And you’d think there was no possible way he could be telling the truth, even if he was a millionaire.
To me, when a religious person claims they have the correct religion, and they point to the wonders of nature as proof, well…. It’s like someone saying they’ve got half a billion dollars in their pocket, and they say that the existence of the hope diamond is proof that they’re rich. “Oh, yeah, the hope diamond exists, but I own it. I’ve got me an invisible deed in my pocket that claims its riches as my own.”
Now, as part of my philosophy, I not only ask people to empty out their pockets when they make an outrageous claim, I also check my own pockets. I want to be sure I’m as honest with myself as I can be. Hopefully I am.”
Thank you, Siamang! This is exactly the kind of insight I want to gain from this kind of dialogue.
I’ll let you in on a little secret … I ask God almost every day for proof. I pray almost every day that non-spiritually minded people would get whatever it is they need to see God. And the thought (answer?) that keeps coming back to me is this … knowing God is a spiritual transaction that I cannot transact. I can tell my physical story, and I can use whatever talents and possessions he has physically given me to try to explain Him. But when it comes right down to it, when you turn out my pockets, you won’t find Him there. I wish you could, but you won’t. You’ll only find me.
Here’s my analogy … radio vs television. Looking for God with physical eyes and brain and science is like trying to watch the news on a radio. The television waves are in the air all around you, but you’re using the wrong tools to gather evidence.
You’re looking for a miracle and honestly, so am I. But even if you got your miracle, would that prove God? Or more specifically the Christian God and Jesus?
If there’s a God, and if he’s the God I believe in, then it’s up to Him to prove himself to you. I can turn out my pockets, and I will. But I don’t think you’ll find him there. Finding God is a spiritual transaction I cannot transact. All I can do is try to be useful.
Somehow.
Comment by: Stephan
1I have a very good deist/agnostic friend for whom I pray regularly. One day I prayed, “God, talk to Jim today.” I have to admit that I don’t often “hear” a response, but this time I did. The response was, “I do, every day.”
I just wish I could explain why some people are “tuned in” while others aren’t. This frustrates me. I know that people like Siamang and Helen would love to hear that voice from God, so it’s not desire that is blocking it. So what is it?
Comment by: Karen
2I “heard” voices from god in my head - all the time. I have a feeling that Siamang and Helen may have done too, at one time.
The problem isn’t hearing voices, it’s authenticating what exactly they are.
Comment by: Mike O
3I know. That’s why Siamang’s analagy is so good. You can’t “turn the pockets out” it. And it’s not just a run-of-the-mill claim ($50), it’s a potentially insane claim ($500,000,000).
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
4Karen - right.
Stephan I can’t honestly say I’d love to hear that voice. I’d rather say, like Karen, if there was a way to be sure about what it was, I’m open to hearing it and paying attention to it.
I tend to think I probably do already. I just don’t have to get into the head-messing-up quandaries of ‘whose voice is it’? It’s what it is and I get on with my life and who knows…maybe my life is being directed by it because it has all the good ideas I ever have.
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Comment by: Brendon
6Yup, good analogy makes lots of sense.
Makes me think of the “pearl of great price” Jesus talks about. Christians must seem a bit like looneys since we are like someone who sells all we have to obtain this pearl most people reject.
All I can say is that this is more than just a “leap of faith.” What I can do is to do my best to live my life the way Jesus wants me to and this is the only way I can show people “what I got.”
Bottom line is, the only real way to find out about faith is to live it, it’s not a spectator sport so no spectator can really understand.
Comment by: benjamin ady
7My problem with the whole voices in your head thing is that I can’t … manage to figure out how a supreme supernatural being who created everything could be “good”, or to use Jim’s word, “kind”. So I’m not sure I’d *want* to be in communication with her. I mean according to the Christian Bible, that voice has told people to do some amazingly shitty things, and been displeased rather enormously when they didn’t follow through.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
8benjamin…exactly.
However, the Bible could be wrong - it could reflect the limited imagination and ideas of people who thought what they were portraying was ‘good’.
Like people being pleased years ago they could design and build a computer - and it was as big as a room. And now we have laptops that do way more.
If God exists God could be other than some Bible passages imply.
Comment by: Brendon
9I’ve never heard the audible voice of God and I don’t base my faith on the neccesity of this. God uses plenty of other methods to speak.
Talking about God’s Goodness, if you believe in evolution, then I can see why one can honestly say that God can’t be good. I believe evolution is not correct since there is so much evidence against it, I believe in Biblical creation so I hold to the fact that God is Good.
He made everything perfect, gave us rules to keep things that way. Starting with one teensy one saying “don’t eat from that tree.” How difficult can that be to follow? We blew it leading to thousands of years of pain and suffering.
We didn’t deserve any rescue but God has everything planned. He came down to us, lived life with all the pain and suffering we have to endure and then some, and through his death made a way we can get back to him, then rose from the dead showing that it isn’t the end.
What more could a Good God possibly do?
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
10Brendon wrote:
Not send people to hell. Even if you think people deserve punishment, infinite punishment for a finite crime is not fair. If it’s not fair it’s not Good.
Comment by: Doreen Mannion
11Brendon wrote
If God didn’t have Adam & Eve eat from that tree, what reason would there be for God to have a son?