Posted by Jason on: 03.31.2008 /
Two years ago my mother died. She had a short battle with cancer and spent several weeks in the Rowan’s Hospice before dying. In addition to providing excellent medical care in her last weeks they also offered emotional and spiritual support that helped her to come to terms with her impending death. She developed a friendship with the minister at the hospice and they discussed the service that she wanted for her funeral. As an atheist and as someone who appreciated nature she wanted a humanist ceremony and a natural burial.
By her own account the minister was a friendly and thoughtful man and she wanted him to perform the funeral service. Although he was a religious man he was perfectly content to perform a humanist service as per her wishes. Unfortunately, after my mother’s death, it turned out that he was not available on the day of the funeral and I was forced to choose another to take his place. We discussed the details with the replacement minister and agreed on the type of service that we wanted.
I don’t know if you’ve ever arranged a funeral for a family member but I can recommend avoiding it, if at all possible. There is so much to do for so simple a process as disposing of some remains that it leaves one exhausted. You have probate and other financial issues to arrange, the funeral itself, legalities to follow in registering the death, friends and family to notify and comfort and a whole plethora of other things. All of which take your mind off the process of grieving. The funeral itself was my first opportunity in nearly a week to let someone else take the lead.
Anyway, that’s the background. On the day of the funeral the minister turned up in full religious regalia and proceeded to give a very religious service with lots of references to her “being in a better place” and it being “God’s will” that my mother had died.
This left me very angry. A funeral is an event that is loaded with emotion, it is an opportunity for friends and family to close a chapter and to bid farewell. It is a ritual like many others. I understand that many people find comfort in religion but it’s just an illusion to me, and not a welcome one. What most angers me about it is the seeming disregard for the family’s wishes and beliefs, not to mention the deceased. What benefit to the faith could such actions lead to?
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Comment by: Ir (Helen)
1 03/31/08 6:31 AM | Comment Link |Jason, I can totally understand why you were angry. The minister ignored your wishes and betrayed your trust.
I agree in not seeing the benefit in this. This would put me off Christians rather than make me think “Wow, I want to be what you are…”
I don’t understand why some Christians behave this way because I don’t see anything in the Bible which justifies such blatant disrespect to the people who hired you to do something a certain way and trusted that you would. And especially at a time when you had already had a lot to deal with - grieving, the arrangements, etc.
I expect that minister had no idea how negatively he affected you (which doesn’t excuse him). It frustrates me how clueless some people can be!
I’m sorry about your mother. I’m glad she at least didn’t have the stress of knowing her wishes wouldn’t be followed - she believed they would be. And of course they would have been if it had been up to you.
Comment by: Jason
2 03/31/08 6:47 AM | Comment Link |Thanks Helen, since posting this last night (different time zone again) I’ve been thinking that a lot of well meaning religious people do the same to a lesser extend. Any comment intended as soothing but referring to a heaven says the same thing.
Fortunately I blew up at the first person at work who did this so it only happened the once. A death in the family means that you get excused for being an arse at least once. ;)
Comment by: Anne
3 03/31/08 7:59 AM | Comment Link |As a Christian I find the minister’s behaviour totally unacceptable. Your mother’s wishes had been made perfectly clear - it is absolutely not alright to override them.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
4 03/31/08 8:32 AM | Comment Link |Jason wrote:
I would hope so :)
Christians are supposed to be good at forgiving (excusing) others, not at creating reasons for you to forgive them - that’s what really bugs me about this.
But like Anne illustrates, lots of Christians would never engage in or condone behavior like that ministers’.
Comment by: Randy
5 03/31/08 9:06 AM | Comment Link |Oh my. Jason, I am SO sorry this happened. I’m a former pastor who has done dozens of funerals for all kinds of people. If there was some reason to feel uncomfortable in doing a secular funeral service for you and your family, this minister should have gracefully declined. This behavior was nothing short of deceptive, abusive and disrespectful.
I used to tell families I would not do any evangelizing at the ceremony…even if they really wanted me to. It seemed cheap and manipulative and unfair to those present to take this incredibly tender moment and turn it into a conversion festival.
I have shared the Gospel, in gentle, respectful ways, at some services where the deceased was someone I knew and who had asked me to do so.
Your mom’s service was clearly not in that ballpark. May God have mercy on us.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
6 03/31/08 9:07 AM | Comment Link |Jason wrote:
Yes…this is one of the situations where I try to remember the person means well and is trying to be helpful/encouraging. And the easiest response is usually ‘thanks’ and to walk away.
Comment by: Jason
7 03/31/08 2:43 PM | Comment Link |I think I’ve probably made this too personal for people to discuss objectively. If anyone is holding back because of that please don’t worry. Although I am easily offended I am also quick to forgive. I mean the minister offended me only two years ago and I’ve forgiven him enough to start talking about it now. ;) I also don’t want to give the impression that my choice of atheism was due to a bad experience. That would be perpetuating the myth. I’ve always been an atheist.
I know that most people don’t preach when someone is vulnerable. The temptation to say “I told you so” (which I take the preaching to be) is tempered by empathy for the other party. At least my own gloating is tempered by that. I’m generally only horrible (in a good natured way) to people who I know can handle it.
Perhaps I’m being unfair. My aunt and uncle and some of my mother’s friends may have been comforted. That doesn’t excuse the fact that the minister went against her wishes or against mine. I was paying the guy after all.
Comment by: Randy
8 03/31/08 5:28 PM | Comment Link |You are correct, sir! You are NOT being unfair at all, even if some of your mother’s friends were comforted.
And I’m really not holding back. I am simply embarrassed that this kind of thing happens so much in the name of Jesus.
I need a beer.
Comment by: Steve
9 03/31/08 10:42 PM | Comment Link |As a human being, I sympathize with you. I’ve lost family and friends to sickness and tragedies. However, with that said, my question is, why do atheists have funerals in the first place? How does the atheist account for human dignity? We’re just molecules-in-motion. As a Christian, I can account for because we’re created in God’s image. Generic “goodness” for the atheist only goes so far.
Comment by: Jason
10 04/1/08 4:40 AM | Comment Link |Steve said:
To dispose of the body, to provide closure to the mourners, basically the same reasons a theist has a funeral but without the illusion of seeing your loved ones again in a mythical afterlife.
I’m going to take this as an expression as to why our fellow human beings are deserving of esteem or respect. We try not to treat each other in a patronising way in life. It makes life better for everyone that way. We retain an emotional connection to the remains of our loved ones and extend that respect to the dead.
Are you suggesting that without religion we would all degenerate into savage beasts? The illusion of godless moral nihilism is just that: an illusion. Christians have no greater claim to morality than any other group, an examination of human history should make that quite evident.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
11 04/1/08 4:59 AM | Comment Link |Steve wrote:
Thanks Steve - you seem like a decent caring human being.
Why do atheists have to account for human dignity? Don’t atheists grieve just like other people? Don’t atheists want to honor the memory of people just like other people do? Don’t atheists respect people who meant a lot to them? Aren’t these good enough reasons for a funeral?
Could you elaborate on your last line?
I could ask: why do Christians mourn when someone dies - they should be rejoicing when someone goes to heaven.
But the reality is, Christians and atheists both miss people who die. It’s a huge loss when someone who was part of your life is gone. Atheists and Christians pretty much have the same feelings when that happens - I think atheists and Christians pretty much alike in how they react to similar life events.
Comment by: Karen
12 04/1/08 2:47 PM | Comment Link |I’m sorry about your experience, Jason.
I’ve actually been to a wedding and a funeral where there were altar calls and both instances were inappropriate and embarrassing. In both situations, there was a lot of awkward tension and ultimately no one actually went forward. Ouch. (For those who aren’t familiar, an altar call is when a preacher asks people in the congregation to physically come forward to the altar and pray to accept Jesus.)
The funeral was for my uncle, who was Jewish but whose Pentecostal wife claimed he converted before he died. I was in the midst of deconverting at the time, and this funeral service was so tacky and so disrespectful to my uncle’s memory that it really shocked me.
Here were people who’d been patients of my uncles’ (he was a psychiatrist) and friends of his, trying to honor his memory and they were being pressured to suddenly change their religious beliefs. It was really bad.
Comment by: Pam Hogeweide
13 04/1/08 11:17 PM | Comment Link |hey jason, thanks much for telling us your story.
i went to four funerals last summer. it was tough july. at two of them the preaching to get saved was on. thus, my snarky husband, who is a christian coined a new term: Vulture Evangelism.
Does anyone know anyone who had a faith encounter or whatever because of an evangelical speech bleeding out into eulogy? Anybody???
(and randy, that is so unpastor-like for you to not have jumped on those incredible opportunities to lead people across the line when they were confronted by their own mortality. Isn’t death supposed to be the greatest evangelist? You rock in my book for not going for the vulture evangelism tactic!)
Comment by: Jason
14 04/2/08 9:19 AM | Comment Link |Karen and Pam, you make it sound more common that I had assumed. Perhaps it is simply that they cannot see the negative impact in what they do?
I do like the term “Vulture Evangelism”, it reminds me of “Ambulance Chasers” and has the same kind of negative connotations.
Comment by: Karen
15 04/3/08 9:41 AM | Comment Link |I think it’s more likely that any negative impact is ignored or justified by the greater goal of saving someone from spending eternity in hell. When you have that overarching goal, and you believe it very firmly, you can justify a lot of negative things done to reach it.
Yes, it’s perfect.
Comment by: Mike O
16 04/20/08 2:12 PM | Comment Link |I haven’t posted in quite a while, so for those who don’t know, I’m a Christian.
I was just at a funeral yesterday for an almost-relative - Grandpa Bill. While I agree with practically everything being said here, evangelizing was done at Bill’s funeral, but it WAS his desire. In that case, I think it’s perfectly OK.
But with that said, it was completely out of line for the preacher to do that at your mom’s funeral - on two accounts. First, it’s not what she wanted, and two, if he knew her and knew that she was an atheist, he didn’t really think she was in a better place, he was probably just saying that because, well, that’s what you’re *supposed* to say at a funeral.
Anyway, to me it all comes down to the wishes of the deceased.
Comment by: Mike O
17 04/20/08 2:22 PM | Comment Link |Oh, a couple of other things …
Pam said,
Yes - I see it all the time. 12 people “got saved” (I hate that term, but you know what I mean) at Grandpa Bill’s funeral. Most of the funerals I’ve been to have been for Christians. And I think in that case, the people in attendance *knew* them, and whether or not they would have wanted it. Chances are, for evangelism to be effective at a funeral, that person would have to have lived a life that the attendees would want to emulate. When I die, the people who come to my funeral will know my heart and perhaps they would follow Christ because of my influence. I’d be honored - but that’s me. And it wouldn’t be because of a sneak-attack by the preaching while I’m lying in my casket. It will be because I did the best I could to emulate Christ while I lived.
I hope that wasn’t too preachy - it’s my just perspective.
2nd thing - Jason said,
That’s exactly right. I am pretty conservative by y’alls account, and I can attest to the fact that most of my friends either don’t see the negative, or don’t care (like Karen said.) All they can see is the “opportunity” so they seize upon it. I understand why they do. But no, they can’t see the negative impact of un-invited or un-welcome evangelism.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
18 04/22/08 6:50 AM | Comment Link |Mike wrote:
Exactly.
And people who knew you would understand why you would want a funeral which incorporated your faith.
It’s hard to imagine the reverse of what Jason experienced, i.e. a funeral in which your faith was not reflected although you wanted it to be. If that did happen then you would have been wronged, certainly.
Comment by: Doreen A Mannion
19 04/22/08 2:53 PM | Comment Link |Jason,
I’m so sorry that happened to you. There is NO excuse for it.
doreen
Comment by: Jason
20 04/22/08 4:33 PM | Comment Link |Mike, sorry to hear about your own loss, it’s never good to lose someone. I’m still going to disagree with you on one minor point though.
While I agree that honouring the wishes of the deceased is something that family and friends should do I think that it is the job of the person conducting the service to honour the wishes of the family. From my perspective the dead are secondary to the living.
A service should be an opportunity to remember the personality and actions of the deceased. To ease the burden on the living and to offer them a release from the emotional turmoil of losing a loved one. Evangelism distracts from that and diminishes it. If religion was an important part of someone’s life then it should be remembered and commented on but not used.
Comment by: Mike O
21 04/23/08 8:05 AM | Comment Link |I don’t know if I agree or not, but I see your point. The survivors should honor the wishes of the deceased, but if they don’t - I guess I don’t know how it should go. We’re looking at the question from completely different perspectives (spiritual vs physical), however, so our priorities aren’t quite the same and that shifts our views a bit. It’s a moot point in my case because my family is all on the same page on this one.
Like I said before, the people who come to my funeral knew me, and in my case, wouldn’t be surprised by an evangelistic flair to the ceremony. I guess I’m just saying that there are cases where an evangelistic tone is acceptable. It wasn’t acceptable in your case.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
22 04/24/08 9:48 AM | Comment Link |Mike O wrote:
I was thinking that too.
Jason what if you had a family member who wanted a religious funeral - what would you do? Honor their wishes even though you’d prefer to be at a non-religious one?
Comment by: Jason
23 04/24/08 11:20 AM | Comment Link |Helen, my grandmother died a few months ago. She was very much a woman of her generation and had firm religious beliefs. Her funeral was a religious affair. Of course, I had nothing to do with making the arrangements. If I had arranged the funeral I would have followed her wishes.
I suppose it’s equivalent to a Christian arranging his Jewish cousin’s funeral. You honour your family by keeping to their wishes.
That’s why my father’s body is going to be dumped in a skip for the council to dispose of. ;)
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
24 04/24/08 12:07 PM | Comment Link |Fair enough, Jason - I thought you would honor the wishes of the deceased but this hadn’t been covered in the conversation so far.
…but if their wishes aren’t legal presumably you have to draw the line :)
Comment by: Jason
25 04/24/08 3:21 PM | Comment Link |OK that was a joke…although my father has said that we should chuck his body in a skip when he’s dead. He means it as a way of minimizing the costs of a funeral rather than literally. At least I don’t think he’s being literal. :)
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
26 04/24/08 6:30 PM | Comment Link |I think my husband has said something similar for similar reasons.
Although presumably the funeral is more for family and friends than the person who died - it’s a meaningful time to honor the memory of the person together.
Comment by: Mike O
27 04/29/08 1:15 PM | Comment Link |When asked what he wanted for his funeral, Bob Hope quipped, “Surprise me.”
:)