Posted by Jason on: 04.23.2008 /
Helen wrote a post over at our sister site about Ricky Gervais and his path to atheism. Go and check it out. I’ll wait…
..OK..
Good. I wanted to focus on one particular phrase that he came up with:
Oh…hang on. There is no God. He knows it, and she knows it deep down. It was as simple as that. I started thinking about it and asking more questions, and within an hour, I was an atheist.
You know how some Christians, particularly fundamental Christians, say that atheists do secretly believe in God, deep down? That we’re just denying it for some reason. Well sometimes I think the same thing in reverse. I believe that everyone “knows” that there is no God but refuses to accept it as it would go against so much that they have built up and losing God would be like pulling the carpet out from under them.
Sometimes I think that but then I remember that I’m only transferring my own opinions onto others and that isn’t fair. The “truth” of atheism is blindingly obvious to me but, you know what, that’s just me. There are people who see the “truth” of Christ as obvious and incontrovertible or the “truth” of Vishnu. I cannot prove a lack of any god any more than I can prove the existence of one. That means that all of our theistic tendencies are opinions and they matter only to us.
It is our actions that are important. You and I are free to believe in anything we like but it is how we implement that belief that is the measure of ourselves.
Comment by: Mike O
1It’s funny you should say that. Other than that one GLARING difference in the conclusion we’ve reached concerning God, we’re not that different.
Comment by: Jason
2;) Isn’t that the point?
Comment by: Mike O
3Yup! :)
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
4I think it might be a bit easier for me since I’ve been through some changes in belief myself. I know I really did believe back then so I assume that’s true of other people too :)
When I was a Christian I absolutely didn’t understand how anyone could stop believing. That was the hardest part for me - not that some people never believed but that people who claimed to believe as strongly as me could ever stop. How could they? Why would they? I just couldn’t relate.
At least I didn’t challenge them to their face about it. I listened and wondered and really didn’t understand how it could happen.
Then…I found out… ;-)
Comment by: Karen
5I think it depends on who you’re talking about here (duh!) ;-)
Speaking for myself, though I had doubts here and there over the years, for the most part I was completely and utterly convinced of god’s existence when I was a Christian. The doubts I had were repressed enough as to be almost negligible. In fact when I was in the deconversion process and the thought popped into my head that just maybe there was no god - it was like the earth shook under my feet. That’s how profoundly shocking even the idea (expressed only as a question in my thoughts) was.
On the other hand, I sometimes see people who are much less certain about their religious faith than I was and I also suspect, deep down, that they have a sneaking suspicion the whole thing’s made up, but they can’t allow themselves to go there because of their community, family, world view, job or whatever. I actually sympathize with that, in fact, because I know how difficult it can be.
Comment by: Karen
6OT: Hey Helen, what’s become of the Beth and Traci project? Have they discontinued that, or has it moved and I’m looking for it in the wrong spot?
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
7Karen, it’s on the ChurchRater blog
They haven’t posted anything recently. I wrote to them yesterday to ask what their future posting plans are.
If they reach (or have reached) a point where they decide they need to continue their book project offline we’ll post some sort of message on there to let people know.
Back to the topic :) - I think people who believe in God span the spectrum from those who don’t seem to have any significant doubts to those who have lots.
As you mentioned, it generally has serious relationship ramifications, sometimes professional too, going public and saying “actually I don’t believe this”.
A quick perusal of the stories people share on ex-Christian sites easily demonstrates that.
Comment by: Marty SB
8I believe this very strongly. One of my great lessons from this blog was getting to know, understand and appreciate the atheists on this blog and to realize that the manifestations of their lack of beliefs was often more positive than the manifestation of some of those who called themselves Christian.
Comment by: Karen
9Thanks!
So true. I can see why many people who aren’t sure about god’s existence nevertheless want to keep believing, or at least stay in the church, for myriad social, emotional, career and other reasons.
There could be a point where someone like that would say, “I’m giving god the benefit of the doubt. True, there’s no real scientific evidence, but there are lots of anecdotes, maybe some personal experiences, and thousands of years of tradition. That’s good enough for me.”
I respect that, though it seems kind of arbitrary to go from that sort of generic god-belief to something specific like Christianity, given how many mutually contradictory forms of religion there are.
Comment by: Ir (Helen)
10Karen wrote:
Karen I think it’s because people usually step up to a higher level of involvement when they have some sort of personal experience that they believe is with Jesus/the God of Christianity. They think that because of the context - maybe it’s with Christians, in church, at a Christian event, or connected with the Bible. And maybe because they’ve always associated their vague belief in God with Jesus.
And if this seems real and is working, why would they look further? The exclusive nature of (much of) Christianity tells them that if what they’re experiencing is real, all other religions are wrong, or at least less true.
If I find a medication that works well I won’t go try all the alternatives - I’ll stick with the one that works. I’ll only switch if it stops working.