Posted by Jason on: 10.20.2008 /
Mike wrote last week about how outsiders to Christianity view the efforts of Christians in spreading their message. There is one really important thing to say about spreading the message that I want to share: Don’t. You can’t make people listen, you can’t convert anyone, you can’t create a need. Don’t bother trying.
I’m not even talking about the Christian idea of “You can’t bring someone to Christ, only Christ can do that” because that’s just an excuse to make the Christian feel better at not converting people. I’m talking about the effort of attempting to convert someone. The same goes for attempts by atheists to convert theists of any kind away from their faiths.
 ”If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people together to collect wood and don’t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea.”
 - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, the French author and aviator.
The point is that people won’t convert, they won’t decide to change, not unless or until they feel a need to. They won’t feel a need to change unless they meet circumstances where their existing beliefs fail them. That’s why so many people convert and are saved when they are at their lowest point or reject religion when it fails to help them.
If you want to make religion appealing, or if we want to make atheism appealing, then we shouldn’t tell people how good it is or how bad the other side is. Instead we should foster a desire to explore all sides of the issue and allow people to choose for themselves. They should be able to weigh up the pros and cons by being exposed to the benefits and limitations of religion and it’s opposite. We share our point of view then, not as an attempt to convert, but as a way of understanding how our shared humanity deals with life.
Comment by: Mike O
1Here’s a biblical answer that should satisfy your requirement. I think even you would be OK if Christians took this approach
It says, “to everyone who asks you,” not “to everyone you can manage to trap like a rat in box.”
Or, as the great atheistic philosopher, Jason, so aptly put it …
Oh, and let’s not forget the last phrase … with gentleness and respect.
That’s right. Respect.
Comment by: joe
2Jason, I just don’t think your argument stands up. It does not reflect the way that people communicate.
If I know something good/exciting about something, I don’t just sit on my hands. If there is a sale at Sony and I know someone who wants to buy a new TV you tell them and give short shift to anyone who tries to argue that Sony doesn’t exist.
If you are an academic, you don’t attempt to make everyone understand the complexities of all global creation myths - you forcefully argue your point with evidence and passion and to hang with anyone who says anything different.
The facts disprove you: people are regularly converted to all kinds of things by good argument. If they weren’t, there would be no point in having a 18 month Presidential campaign because it would make bugger all difference.
What is true is that people do not respond to silly arguments and points learnt parrot-fashion. Nobody likes to be treated as conversion-fodder. And nobody likes feeling the wrath of some idiot who doesn’t like the fact that you don’t agree with him.
To me this is something that atheists fail to appreciate. Christians feel that what they have is good news, and that it is something people want to hear. You might (legitimately of course) disagree with what they are saying, but I don’t think you can tell them to stop trying. The world would be a far greyer place if people stopped doing things with passion.
And anyway, whilst the Christian may well be obnoxious, it is possible to be friends with passionate people you don’t agree with. Look at Bernard Shaw and Chesterton. They regularly engaged in public debates on all kinds of issues, but seemingly remained friends.
Chesterton said of Shaw:
And Shaw said of Chesterton:
So, in conclusion - join with us in condemning all those who are obnoxious - whether they be atheist, Christian or otherwise. Don’t attempt to put down passion, but equally don’t forget to laugh at idiotic argument.
[edit] Though I would have to add that there are far more obnoxious Christians than atheists in my experience, I don’t think any group of people is devoid of dull obnoxious people.
I just wish that more Christians would realise that arguments based on bible passages are entirely unhelpful to the person who does not recognise the bible as an authority.
Comment by: Jason
3Mike, having trapped a few rats in boxes (I mean this literally as I keep rats for pets) I can attest to the fact that they really hate it and tend to hold a grudge for a while afterwards. You’re right of course, if people shared or responded to what was asked then I’d be much happier.
I was enjoying a drink the other week with a friend of 20+ years when the topic drifted onto religion. My friend, Shane, was surprised when I told him I was an atheist and had plenty of questions. Equally I was surprised that he wasn’t and had just as many questions. Neither of us were attempting to convert the other, we were just learning more about our mutual viewpoints and growing as friends.
Even the idea of converting my friend is disturbing to me. He’s my friend because of what he is, what he does and what he believes in. Why would I want to change that?
Comment by: Jason
4Joe, there may be some cultural drift here. I’ve noticed that Americans tend towards exuberance and passionate expressions of opinion while we English tend to be more reserved and private. They’re stereotypes but probably deserved ones.
Exactly, someone who is looking to buy a TV invites you to talk about TV sales by bringing the subject up. You wouldn’t run around telling complete strangers about the new Sony sale or your friend who has just bought a Phillips TV (unless they got a terrible deal and you fancied winding them up).
40% of Americans are Democrat and 40% are Republican (roughly) and the election is to “convert” the remaining 20% to swing the vote for them. There is no point in attempting to convert someone who is entrenched in their position or who sees no need to change. They’ll resent the attempt. Only those who are ignorant of the arguments or who are interested and open to hearing about the option are available for conversion. All others are not.
I appreciate that and can be happy for someone who has been “saved” if it makes them happy. I might well want to hear what made them decide to convert but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I want to convert too. I want to be able to share their happiness not become them.
It’s a deal.
Not to mention confusing and insulting. Few people ever cite a biblical passage and then explain why it is good or useful. They just copy and paste the text and then bugger off. As if it stands alone as some sort of absolute proof.
I suppose it does to some Christians.
Comment by: Don’t | All Reason
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